You’re at a place in your business where you’re ready to start diving into coaching or workshops, but it’s nerve-wracking, right?! Laylee Emadi spills the tea on this week’s episode of Keeping It Candid, unpacking red flags, beige flags, and green flags to look out for before you work with an educator!
Sandra Henderson (00:00.342)
When you’re investing in any sort of education in your business, whether that be working with a business coach or attending a workshop or a conference, there’s a lot of anxiety that goes in behind it because it is expensive and it also takes a lot of time and you want to make sure that this investment that you are putting into yourself and your business because it is an investment that you want to make sure that it’s actually going to pay off going forward and be worth all the energy that you put into it.
And then you also want to make sure that you can actually trust the people that you’re working with, right? Unfortunately, we have all experienced things where we have paid for something and we just don’t feel like we got the service that we were looking for from it. And my first experience trying to work with an educator in my business, unfortunately, was one of the worst experiences I’ve ever had. And something that really set the tone for how I was going to invest in my education going forward, but also how I was going to be doing things as an educator.
Welcome to Keeping It Candid. I’m your host, Sandra Henderson, an international wedding and family photographer and business coach. I help wedding photographers use systems to build out the back end of their businesses to gain control and continue to thrive no matter what life throws their way.
And on a more personal note, I’m a strong Enneagram 3-wing too, who is obsessed with tacos. And my love for traveling combined with navigating chronic illness life are just two of the many things that drive my passion for all things, systems, workflows, and beating burnout as a business owner. Join me every week for a candid behind the scenes look at what it’s really like working as a wedding photographer, where I’ll give you actionable steps to take your business to the next level.
Absolutely no fluff here, friends, so go grab your favorite notebook and pen and let’s dive into this week’s episode.
Sandra Henderson (01:49.186)
Today on the podcast, we are talking all about red flags, beige flags, and green flags when it comes to educators in the wedding photography industry. But before we get into it all, I wanted to set the tone of the episode by telling a little bit of a story of my very first time getting involved with an educator and how it shaped where I am today as in the education space myself.
So I had been in business for about three years when some local photographers that were about a couple hours away from me, so local-ish, started advertising a workshop series that they were gonna be hosting every Sunday from May through October. They had different topics for every week and I was so excited about this because these photographers were huge in this area. I had been following them my entire time coming up as a wedding photographer all through college. I’m not gonna name any names here. They’re not in business anymore.
And honestly, they get all the bad karma that’s coming to them. You will see as this story continues on. But I just don’t wanna set myself up for any sort of legal bullshit coming my way. So I’m not gonna name who they are, but these photographers, they set up this workshop. I paid $450 upfront. You had to pay in full for the workshop and that was for a June date and then I was going to be taking one in August as well but I hadn’t put the money down on that yet, thankfully.
So after I submitted my payment and everything, time went on and I had never actually received any sort of information from the photographers that were hosting this. But because it was my first time working with an educator, this didn’t seem too off base for me. I knew that they were super busy with their own wedding clients and everything from what I was seeing online. So I just figured I would get something eventually.
And then it was the weekend of the workshop. And on the Saturday, I actually had a wedding and I was gonna be going to the workshop on the Sunday. And as we are on the way to the wedding, my assistant was driving and I checked my email and there was an email from these photographers saying that due to unforeseen circumstances, the workshop…
Sandra Henderson (04:08.962)
that was to happen the next day was cancelled and that they would be in touch within the next couple of days to get everybody set up with refunds and everything. So I was so disappointed but I had to go about doing the wedding and after a few days I still hadn’t heard anything so I went onto Facebook and I noticed that the events had been deleted and then I tried to find the website that didn’t seem to be around anymore either.
This is when I started getting red flags. I wish I’d had them sooner, but this is definitely when alarms were going off, red flags were popping up. I decided to send an email to the hosts of the workshop and ask them if there was any sort of update on when we would be receiving this refund. And I got an autoresponder email back saying that they were out of the office for a wedding and they would get back in touch with me as soon as they were back in the office on Monday.
So I wait another about a week, week and a half, and I still haven’t heard from them. So I decide to send another email to check in, and this time I get an autoresponder email telling me that they’re out of the office for a couple of weeks for vacation. So I again wait until they say that they are gonna be back in the office. I send another email, they still don’t hear anything.
And so I decide at this point to go into another email address. I was actually planning my own wedding at the time. So I went into the email address that I had for planning my wedding and I sent them a fake wedding inquiry. And wouldn’t you know it, within 15 minutes I had a response back asking if I wanted to set up a consultation. So I went over into my business email account and I sent them yet another email that didn’t get responded to.
Surprise, surprise. So a few days later, when they followed up with my fake wedding inquiry asking if I was interested in setting up a consultation, I decided to let my pettiness fly and I responded telling them no, I was actually just submitting a fake wedding inquiry to see if they were ignoring my emails, which apparently they were. So thanks for confirming that and I’ll be filing a fraud complaint with my credit card company. So that was actually the route that I had to go. And it took another…
Sandra Henderson (06:27.466)
I want to say month or so of the credit card company doing a fraud investigation and eventually I did receive my refund. And then that fall I was actually at a wedding at the wedding venue that these workshops were supposed to be hosted at and I was talking to one of the staff at the venue and explained the whole situation, told them about the workshop and they looked more and more shocked the longer I was speaking because here’s the real kicker.
These photographers had never actually booked this wedding venue for the workshops that they were advertising eight weeks of workshops for. Me talking to the staff was the first time that they had ever heard of these workshops. So I found out that it was a scam right from the very beginning. And let me tell you, it left the worst taste in my mouth when it came to these photographers, to whether or not you can trust your peers in the industry, if you can trust educators in the industry, like it was just the absolute worst experience to start off with.
Now, thankfully, every educator I’ve worked with since then, every coach I’ve worked with, every conference I’ve gone to, it has all been built with integrity, with people who know what they’re talking about, with people who are looking to help and serve you and not scam you from the very beginning.
And so I hope that story doesn’t scare you away from taking the leap yourself if you have not worked with an educator this far in your business. Aside from the impact it’s had on me with working with educators in the future, it has also had an incredible impact on me as an educator because there is no way in hell I will ever, ever get into a situation where something like that happens with somebody that I’m educating.
I want every client that I work with to walk away feeling confident, feeling like they not only got their money’s worth out of it, but got more than what they paid for out of it, that they are singing my praises hopefully, and that they just have a more simple streamlined approach so that they can go into their business and keep building this dream that they’ve been working towards for so long.
Sandra Henderson (08:42.334)
And it’s also what inspired me to reach out to my friend, Laylee Emadi to talk all about red, beige, and green flags that you see with wedding photographers in the industry, like I was mentioning back at the beginning. If you’ve never heard of Laylee, she is an educator, a speaker, and conference host with a heart for serving clients and fellow entrepreneurs through her coaching work, as the host of So Here’s the Thing podcast, and as the founder of the Creative Educator Conference.
She believes in leading with heartfelt encouragement and honest guidance. And as a long time entrepreneur, she’s not afraid to dig into tough topics or transparently share her own experiences, both the good and the bad. She’s passionate about her goal to equip you in your ability to make a difference, create impact, and build a life doing what you love.
Now, the person that I think about when I want real talk when it comes to the creative industry is Laylee. She is not kidding when she talks about being transparent and her own experiences, both the good and the bad. And so I cannot wait for you guys to listen to this interview so that it can better prepare you as you head into 2024 and start making those investments in yourself too.
Sandra Henderson
Thank you so much for joining me. It feels a little bit surreal after listening to your podcast for so many years. I absolutely love it.
And when I was thinking about doing this episode and I knew I needed someone to come on with like their real talk, unfiltered opinion on things, the one person I thought about was you. So Laylee, I would love if you could just quickly introduce yourself and let people know a little bit, wow, a little bit about what you’re all about before we dive in.
Laylee Emadi
Yeah, absolutely. First of all, that’s so kind. Thank you. I feel like, I don’t know if it’s a good thing or a bad thing, but a lot of people associate me with like just the brutal honest truth, and I try to be kind when I share it. But I think it’s a good thing.
So I appreciate that and I’m so excited to be here. Yeah, like you said, I’m a podcaster. I’m a coach for educators and speakers, so it’s very meta, but I get to work with people on sharing their skillset really well and impacting their industry really well. And so I love doing that as well. And I also host the Creative Educator Conference, which does the same thing, but with guest speakers.
Sandra Henderson (10:55.198)
which I had the pleasure of attending earlier this year and it was absolutely incredible. You never would have known that it was the first time hosting this conference because it was perfection from start to finish. If anybody listening is interested in dipping their toe into the water in education, I definitely recommend checking it out because it was 10 months later now and I’m still pulling things that were so relevant and so helpful, so cannot recommend it enough.
And I totally agree that it is a good thing to have everybody associate you with the blunt opinions because you do, you don’t like, you’re not mean about it, but there are things that, you know, they need to be said and too many people dance around it and don’t wanna talk about it. So I love it, I think it’s a great thing.
Laylee Emadi
Thank you.
Sandra Henderson
So today we are gonna be talking a little bit more about coaching, but from the wedding photographer perspective of people who are going to be investing in coaching, whether it be for the first time or continuing their education. And we both know that there are educators of all kinds out there. I mean, you can say that about everything, but there’s definitely educators of all kinds out there. So today I wanted to kind of do a little like red flag, beige flag, green flag, and talk a little bit about what people should be keeping their eye out for as they are investing in education.
So why don’t we get the bad out of the way? Let’s start with the red flags, which I think is the real juicy one.
Laylee Emadi
Yeah. I mean, I think you’re right. First off, it’s really tricky when you’re investing in education in the wedding industry or in any creative space because I say this all the time as somebody who I started my education for educators with the Creative Educator Academy.
Which is like a program that kind of gives you the foundational tools for all different types of education in the creative space. And the reason that I did that and the reason I’m talking about that is because when I started in this industry 10 years ago, and I started in the photography industry in particular, there was, and there still is no regulation on who can call themselves an educator. There’s no kind of licensing or certificate or anything that takes you through.
You could literally tomorrow say, or today, you could right now go on Instagram and be like, I’m now an educator. And people do that. And they do it and it’s great. And maybe they have the knowledge and they have what it takes to actually call themselves an expert. But to call yourself an educator. And again, maybe it’s because this is kind of like my background is in actual education. So I was an actual teacher for just shy of a decade and I wrote curriculum for my school district.
And so I worked really hard to become an educator. And now, you know, seeing all these people out here calling themselves coaches, speakers, educators, course creators, but they have no qualifications to do so. Sometimes it’s fine. Sometimes you’re a natural teacher, but sometimes it’s not. And so I’m glad that we’re talking about this. So I want to get that out of the way by saying like that’s kind of the premise of what I base these like red flags and green flags off of that we’re going to be talking about is that there just is so little out there that will qualify somebody to be an incredible educator.
So you have to do like you the investor, you have to do like the research and the due diligence and look beyond Instagram followers to determine who is actually going to be like a good coach for you. So red flags I would look for right off the bat is people who are out here, like just stirring the pot just to get traction on social media. I think it’s great. Obviously, I based an entire podcast for the past five years off of like, quote unquote, unpopular opinions, but they’re not opinions that really stir the pot. Half the time an unpopular opinion is an opinion that everybody has, but nobody wants to talk about. Yeah. So I think that’s one really big red flag is just looking for people who are just attraction and followership and all the things. So that’s one red flag.
Another red flag is I think people who are only teaching and not doing what they’re teaching. And this is debatable. Like I feel like a lot of people, I don’t know how you feel about this, but like there’s a lot of educators out there. Like wedding photography is a perfect example of coaches who they get into coaching and they scaled back their photography and then they just stop doing photography, but they’re still teaching. And to me, there’s a certain timeframe where that’s okay. And it depends on the topic you’re teaching too, I think. But if you’re teaching marketing to book, and it’s been two or three years since you’ve booked, I mean, the tactics are not going to be the same. We just went through a global pandemic. There’s no way that it’s like this economy is completely different today than it was three years ago. Your marketing tactics and tools are likely outdated.
So that to me is a red flag.
Sandra: Yeah, for sure. I totally agree with you on that.
Laylee: Do you? Okay, that’s good. I’m always like, I don’t know how you feel about this.
Sandra Henderson
No, I think it makes a lot of sense. As you were saying that, I was thinking about educators that I know who started off in one industry, started teaching in it, and then kind of scaled back. The things that they’re teaching on focus on things like email marketing or systems or whatever the case may be. They’re not teaching you how to be a wedding photographer when they haven’t shot a wedding in 10 years. So I think that that’s super important.
Laylee Emadi
Yeah. I think if they are, that’s something I would question. But otherwise, I think, again, it’s topic dependent 100%. I agree with that. I could teach a wedding. I could coach a wedding photographer tomorrow and I haven’t shot a wedding since 2019, but I would never coach them on something that I’m not currently doing. So absolutely.
Sandra Henderson (17:03.542)
or systems or whatever, hiring, things that I’m still doing in my daily life. But I wouldn’t teach them on the newest gear or in particular, booking brides in this economy. That’s so specific and it’s something that you really have to be hands-on about. For sure. It’s giving me flashbacks of when I took photography in college. And it was like…
There was, I don’t regret it. There were great takeaways from it, but I will never forget being in a portrait class and having the teacher had like a string that was tied to the camp, like the tripod that he pulled out to meet up with our chins to make sure. And like, that’s how they used to do like school posing in like the seventies, eighties, nineties. I was in school in 2010. Like there was no need to still be teaching us that way. And like that.
served me no purpose. The only reason I remember it is because of how ridiculous it was, not because it like, you know, came in handy as I was getting into the photography industry. Oh my gosh, that’s so funny. I’m like remembering seeing that happening. Right. Yeah, so that’s what we were taught. So good. Okay, so I guess I’ll give like one more red flag. Okay. Yeah, sounds good. Okay. I’m trying to think of the best one.
I think probably the biggest one is people who are like being just cautious and conscientious when you’re doing your digging about like the people who are offering coaching is seeing how long have they actually been doing this because it’s so hard to tell like I tell people all the time when you want to start marketing yourself as an educator. I mean this is something I teach so I want people to be successful at it. I’m like okay so start sharing on the things that you know. But the red flag here and like the misstep that I see is when people…
start sharing what they know and they immediately start trying to charge what the coach is charging who has been around for years and years and has helped hundreds and hundreds of people versus like, I’ve helped one person and now I’m just getting started. So I would just look out for the red flag of people are always going to look their most confident and put their highlight reel on the internet. So it’s your job to see like, hey, how many people have you actually helped? Like, where are your testimonials and are they real people? Are they like, you know?
Sandra Henderson (19:21.814)
friends and family or the actual clients and other industry experts? Just digging into the show versus the proof. Yeah, absolutely. I think something that you said in the very beginning is super important in trying to just differentiate that as you were saying like an expert versus an educator. And the educator is going to have more than just the highlight reel that you’re going to be able to find to validate what they’re putting out there.
Yeah, absolutely. I think there is such a difference. For sure. All right. Why don’t we get into beige flags? Some things that maybe aren’t the worst thing, aren’t the best thing, but we’ll accept them if they happen. Yeah. I think a beige flag is people offering up their educational content on social. I always tell my students, nobody’s really thinking hard about what you’re putting out there.
start putting your content out, see what sticks. And so I think a beige flag is seeing somebody who’s sharing a lot of different educational content on a lot of different things, because they’re likely trying to figure out what their audience wants from them. Like it’s something that they’re likely qualified to talk about or to teach about, but they’re just trying to gauge like, okay, does my audience, if I’m a wedding photographer, does my audience wanna learn lighting from me, or do they wanna learn booking from me, or marketing from me? And so if they’re sharing a lot of tidbits here and there,
I don’t see that as like a red flag. I definitely see it as like a beige flag. Like they’re at an intermediate point and they’re just trying to figure out what’s gonna stick, but they’re not unqualified likely. I mean, you never know, but that would be for me a beige flag. Another beige flag I would say is, and this is kind of interesting. This also could be related back to like photography and the way that we price for photography. And you know how, you know, like the adage of like, oh, you’re gonna price yourself out or you’re gonna like price yourself under. Looking at…
I’ve worked with coaches who have charged like $400 for an hour long call. And then I’ve worked with coaches who have charged like $2,000 for an hour long call. And I guess some people would say pricing is a red flag. But to me, I just think it speaks to like, if I’m doing the research and it matches the experience that to me is a beige flag, like it’s fine with me. And I think just knowing what you want to invest and what you’re hoping to get out of it as a return.
Sandra Henderson (21:48.986)
it’s on you. So that’s why that’s probably why I would categorize that as beige. Yeah, I agree with that one too. I think what you’re getting out of the experience factors into the price that you’re paying.
We all know that feeling of like putting that money up and not getting what we were expecting out of it. And so that research comes along with it, but I totally agree that like price isn’t always a red flag. Some things are absolutely worth every penny when they’re really expensive and like I would still pay more for them. So.
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All right, let’s move into the green flags. What are some things that are like, yes, we love it when educators and coaches do this and we want more people to do it too? Yeah, I think one is just transparency. Like that to me is like the greenest of the green flag. Just less showmanship, less like showiness and more like I’m so confident in myself as an educator that I’m okay for you to see the rest of the behind the scenes.
Sandra Henderson (23:48.854)
Like you look at some of the top, not even in like wedding industry or photography industry, but the top like online educators and the top even like professional level, like professors, they’re the ones out there who are saying like, hey, I don’t know everything, but here is what I know and I’m really good at what I know. And so that’s kind of, I feel like I try to be really transparent and say like, you know, this is a season where I’m not doing X, Y, and Z.
because I’ve done X, Y, and Z to get here. And there’s, I have no shame in that. Like, I think that to me differentiates so much a beginning educator and an established, seasoned, experienced educator who can say like, I don’t need to be out here showing off like, how much money I make, what I’m doing to do it. You know, I just feel like the transparency of like, hey, this is what I’m great at. This is…
but I’m probably not, but I’m willing to connect the dots for you as well as I can and connect you to people who are even better than me. So that’s actually kind of a few green flags. I feel like the secondary green flag to that is just confidence in your ability and the willingness to say when you’re not great at something too.
Yeah, totally. I have never been in this situation where I’ve asked a business coach a question and they said, I don’t know, or I haven’t respected the hell out of them for it because I don’t want them to give me some sort of bullshit answer where they’re making something up. Like just own up to the fact that you are human and you don’t know everything. That’s totally fine. And like that to me is like I just respect an educator so much more in that sort of scenario. Yeah, same. And I think that it just shows experience.
I know as most educators who are entrepreneurs and most entrepreneurs who are successful are likely somewhere in like an Enneagram 3 vibe of like the achiever, they’re highly motivated, they really want that success. And so it is really difficult in the beginning to be able to say, I don’t know the answer to this, like I’m not great at this.
Sandra Henderson (26:04.87)
It is far more helpful to the person that you are being paid by to be honest and transparent about what you know and what you don’t. So if listeners are thinking about getting into the education space themselves, what advice would you give for them to encourage them to show up with integrity? Oh my gosh, I have so many things I would say. Probably the first thing I would say is if you want to become an ethical educator with integrity, which I highly suggest doing. You know, one…
I mean, a higher coach, hire somebody who has done it before, somebody qualified. I mean, you can hire me, but that’s not really where I’m going with that. It’s more so like finding somebody who has done it in the way that you respect and that you admire, not just the person with 200,000 Instagram followers who’s like churning out kind of lackluster education. So one, pay for the help, invest in the help, show up to things where other educators are.
I know there’s not a lot out there. I’m doing what I can to fix that with the conference and things of that nature. But like, you know, make the connections when you can and where you can. And then start showing up to serve instead of to sell. I know a lot of times we say selling is serving, but in this scenario, I would suggest giving before selling. So like giving some education, seeing where it lands. We talked about it in the beige.
flags, but like that truly is a base flag to me. If you’re getting started, you’re giving out that education and seeing who wants it, what they want with it, how they’re succeeding when using it, and then that will help guide you into paid offers. It’s a win-win, you know? Yeah, absolutely. One thing I’ve always thought as I’ve been getting into the education space, I’ve heard a lot of people bring it up to me, like if it was something that I was concerned about and hearing other people talk about how they have that concern is…
that they’re worried that they’re going to teach people to do it better than them. But the way that I see it is if you’re coming into the education space, that’s what you want essentially. That means that you’re a really good teacher and you want them to be successful in what you’re teaching them. So I think that it’s super important to kind of wrap your head around that too. Yeah, it’s actually really funny. When I first started offering education in the creative industry, I was doing…
Sandra Henderson (28:23.658)
workshops for wedding photographers. So like 15 to 20 people at beautiful venues with style shoots, you know, like back then. Sounds old. Back then that was like not every on every corner or whatever, but style shoots were not like, it was like kind of a big undertaking to do it. So I ended up doing it with a workshop and I’ll never forget one of them, one of my attendees was selected for like front.
Front page style me pretty and like, you know, it was huge and it was from the workshop styled shoot and I had to like sign off on it because style me pretty at the time was like, I don’t even know if they’re still around, but it was a big deal at the time. And I had never been, I had maybe once and definitely not like the front page, not like a big feature. I had maybe even featured on there once. So this student of mine was a hundred percent outperforming me at my own workshop. I mean, to be fair, I didn’t submit, but that’s…
That’s how it could have felt. I was elated. I was like, this is incredible. Because the mindset shift, like you mentioned, I completely agree with you, that you have to shift your mindset from, if you want to be an educator, that means you want your students to outshine you. If you wanna be the expert in the industry, in the top of your industry, then stay there. There’s no shame in that. There’s no reason to join another industry. And education is its own industry.
if your goal is to be the top of your industry only and to never have competitors. So you have to shift your mindset. And for me, I was like, my initial thought was, well, this is great publicity for me as a teacher, not, oh no, this person outshined me as a photographer. I didn’t even think as a photographer in that moment. I thought as the workshop host, I thought what an incredible achievement for my student who showed up and invested in my
at her level will see how beneficial my workshop is. I can help them, I can help more people, I can impact more people and I can make more change as opposed to, oh, her photography is better than mine, way, like, you have to choose, like what’s more important to you? Yeah, absolutely. And it is honestly the best feeling when a student comes back to you to tell you how well they’re doing. Like I was guest speaking to the college that I…
Sandra Henderson (30:43.67)
went to for photography. And I was just like, I think I was talking about social media. I was definitely that like, you know, expert wanting to turn educator that was just dipping their toe in the water and teaching all the things and going to the college photography program is kind of a great way to do that because they need to learn all the little bits of all the things. And I had one of the students about a week later message me on Facebook telling me that in four days they had more than doubled their Instagram following.
And I was just like, oh, I was so proud, like proud mama moment. And I was like, this gives me so much life. Like I need to keep pursuing this. So it’s just the best feeling. I want my students to come to me and be like, I’m doing so much better. Yeah. I think that’s something that you’ll know when you start offering education, like if it’s a good fit for you or not, be able to see like, how important is it to me that these people are thriving based off of my guidance, you know?
It’s funny how I kind of think of different educational experiences that I’ve had. I remember going to a workshop that had a styled shoot as part of it, and the host photographer gave herself the lead spot during the whole portrait session. And I was like, are you here for you? Are we a thing for all of us that are paying to be here? So yeah, things like that. It’s funny. You think back on it, and it’s like, oh yeah, there was a red flag for sure.
Yeah, if they’re placing their body in front of you, that’s a red flag. I mean, there’s a difference between like, I have to get this one shot for the vendor and then you go versus I’m going to shoot the whole time and you’re going to have to shoot around me. Yeah, exactly. All right. That was so helpful. I know that everybody listening is going to have such a better perspective heading into booking their next educational experience. But I do have one last fun little would you rather question.
So if you had to go back to one of your past careers, you already mentioned that you did wedding photography and for everybody that doesn’t know, Laylee was also a dance teacher. So would you rather go back to teaching dance full-time or go back to being a wedding photographer full-time? Oh my gosh, that’s the hardest question I’ve ever been asked. I like put together these would you rather questions. I’m like, I almost feel a little mean. Like I’m trying to make it really hard to choose from. That’s like, I mean, I’m not kidding. That’s the hardest question I’ve ever been asked.
Sandra Henderson (33:04.002)
because there’s so many things I loved about each and things that I really didn’t love about each. Yeah. I think at this point in my life, I think today I would choose dance teacher. Yeah. I liked the freedom of wedding photography, but I also didn’t like the lack of freedom of wedding. It’s such a toss up, but…
Teaching dance was so rewarding in so many other ways too. I mean, they both are. This is why it’s so hard. That was a… It’s like 1% dance teacher, 49% wedding photographer. For sure. I love that though. That’s a great answer. Well, thank you so much, Laili. This was such a fun conversation and I know it’s gonna be so helpful for everybody. Actually, before we jump off, could you just let everybody know where they can find you online so they can give you a follow?
Yeah, you can find me on Instagram @laylee_emadi, all the E’s in my name, or @thecreativeeducatorconference, also on Instagram. Perfect. Thank you for having me. Of course. So now that you know what to look out for as you head into off season and all of the educators are going to be launching tons of new offers because they always do this time of year.
I hope that you feel confident that you are going to get your money’s worth out of whatever it is that you’re paying for. Now this episode is dropping the middle of November just before Black Friday. And if you are listening to this around the time of recording, definitely keep an eye out because my coaching calls are going to be going on sale. Little spoiler alert, you can find all of that information on my website, simplysandriavon.ca.
And if you’re interested in checking out the Creative Educator Conference that Laylee was talking about during our interview, I want you to head over to the show notes or the description for today’s episode, and you’re going to find a link there to get all of the information. Unfortunately, I am not going to be going to the conference in 2024, but please don’t think that speaks negatively to the experience at all. A lot of times you go to a conference and you feel good when you’re walking away, but almost like…
Sandra Henderson (35:13.442)
were things that were missing. There’s something that you were hoping to get from it that you didn’t. But when I went to the Creative Educator Conference in 2023, it’s still 2023 in January, I left feeling like I got absolutely everything that I needed out of it. And this little birdie just wants to jump from the nest and try to fly for a little bit. When the conference happens in 2025, and I’m saying when because lately you have to keep doing this conference.
So when it comes back in 2025, I will definitely be there. And if any of you listening are looking to get into the education space, I can’t wait to connect with you there. Anyways, friends have an amazing rest of your week and we will talk again soon. Thank you so much for listening. You can find full show notes from today’s episode at simplysandryvonne.ca/keepingitcandid. In the meantime, let’s connect.
You can find me on Instagram and TikTok, just search SimplySandraYvonne. And if you’re loving this podcast, I’d be so honored if you’d go ahead and hit that subscribe button and leave a review. Until next time.
About Laylee
Laylee is an educator, speaker, and conference host with a heart for serving clients and fellow entrepreneurs through her coaching work, as the host of the So, Here’s the Thing Podcast, and as the founder of The Creative Educator Conference. She believes in leading with heartfelt encouragement and honest guidance. As a longtime entrepreneur, she’s not afraid to dig into tough topics or transparently share her own experiences—the good and the bad. Laylee is passionate about her goal to equip you in your ability to make a difference, create impact, and to build a life doing what you love.
On this week’s episode of Keeping It Candid, Sara Monika and I talking all about the freedom outsourcing can bring to your life, both personally and financially. This is one you absolutely don’t want to miss! Keep reading for the Show Notes, and head to your favourite podcast player to give it a listen.
Sandra Henderson (00:00.322)
Friends, it’s October 18th and fall busy season is officially underway up here in Canada. How’s everyone feeling? If you are anything like me, you’re probably feeling the weight of all of it right now. The overwhelm of everything that’s going on has really been setting in, but I am so, so happy because I actually just sent out my final wedding galleries for 2023.
I could not be more excited about that and to think that I’m not gonna have the weight of that carrying over as I head into some travel plans in November and then taking some time off for the holidays in December, it feels so good. I’ve literally never experienced this before in the 10 years that I’ve been in business, so I am definitely celebrating over here.
That being said, I am still super overwhelmed. I have a ton of portrait sessions happening. I already mentioned I’m getting ready to travel in November and there’s just so much going on with my husband and my stepson and all the things at home. So if you can relate, I want you to pop over into my DMs on Instagram at simplySandrEyvon. Tell me that I am not completely alone feeling this way and let’s support each other through what is.
definitely most trying time for any photographer at any point in the year. One way that you can take some things off your plate so that feeling of overwhelm doesn’t completely take you over is to start outsourcing. But I know that it’s a scary thing to wrap your head around for a few different reasons. There’s the cost, there’s the idea of giving up control.
But trust me when I tell you that there is so much freedom that’s waiting for you on the other side of those blocks in your mindset. A few weeks ago, I had the chance to connect with Sarah Monica, who is a fellow wedding photographer and educator based in Ontario, Canada, just a couple hours away from me, actually. She gave one of the best intros that I’ve ever had on this podcast, so I’m gonna let you hear what she is all about from her own words, because I am not gonna do it nearly as much justice.
Sandra Henderson (02:05.954)
but she is the go-to expert for all things outsourcing. During her interview, she shared a really transparent and unfiltered look at the impact that outsourcing has had on her business, both financially and in the bigger picture. And I know you are gonna have so many takeaways from this episode. Whether you’re ready to start outsourcing to an actual person, supporting another small business, or if you wanna start incorporating things like AI into how you do things, you deserve the freedom that comes along with taking things off of your to-do list.
Today’s episode is brought to you by Imagine AI, the best addition to my post wedding toolkit this year. I’ve said goodbye to long hours of culling and editing because Imagine AI has learned my preferences and knows exactly what photos I want and how I want them to look. I just get to go in afterward to add my finishing touches with masking and spot removal, and then everything is ready to export. Friends, please do not keep sleeping on incorporating Imagine AI into your workflow.
To get 1500 free edits, head to the episode description or the show notes to grab my affiliate link.
Welcome to Keeping It Candid. I’m your host, Sandra Henderson, an international wedding and family photographer and business coach. I help wedding photographers use systems to build out the backend of their businesses to gain control and continue to thrive no matter what life throws their way.
And on a more personal note, I’m a strong Enneagram 3wing2 who’s obsessed with tacos. And my love for traveling combined with navigating chronic illness life are just two of the many things that drive my passion for all things systems, workflows, and beating burnout as a business owner. Join me every week for a candid behind the scenes look at what it’s really like working as a wedding photographer, where I’ll give you actionable steps to take your business to the next level.
Absolutely no fluff here, friends, so go grab your favorite notebook and pen and let’s dive into this week’s episode.
Sandra Henderson (03:58.038)
Thank you so, so much for joining me, Sarah. I am so excited to have you here. So excited to have another fellow Canadian on the podcast. So before we get into all of the goodness that I know we have in store, if you could just take a quick little second to introduce yourself, that would be amazing. Let everybody know what you’re all about. Yeah, of course. Oh my gosh, all about, all the things. Okay, let’s go down the list. No joking. I’m like, it’s so funny. Sometimes I’m like.
Okay, let me just talk about my likes and dislikes and personality. I’m like, oh no, but maybe first let me talk about what kind of photography I love to do and all of that. So my name is Sarah Monica, but you can just call me Sarah. I used my middle name for my business name instead of my long ass Polish last name, which is too intense for anyone to remember. So it’s just Sarah. It’s not like a double whammy first name with two names. And yeah, I’ve been a photographer for 12 years now. I specialize in photographing.
free-spirited and adventurous couples on wedding days in more of a documentary style way where they can be super free on their wedding day and that’s the priority. And then I’m also an educator, I don’t know, educator guide, kind of all those things put together. I have a podcast, the Shine and Thrive Photography Podcast for about three years now. And yeah, it’s just been so much fun.
Like as soon as I hit that point in my business where I felt like everything was running like a well-oiled machine and I figured out so many things that I was like trying to figure out for so many years, I was like, oh my gosh, I just want to like share this with as many people as possible because it’s so helpful for me. So it just like naturally came about and it just feels so fun and organic to have kind of both of those pillars to my business right now. And I’m also a new mom, relatively new. Ben is a year and a half now.
and I’m engaged to my fiance Rory. We’ve been together for nine years and just some random things. I love dancing to EDM. I love anything to do with freedom, doing what I want when I want, traveling and having a ton of spaciousness in my life. And yeah, that’s a little bit me in a nutshell. I love that. That was easily the best introduction I’ve had on this podcast. That was so good. I feel like we could be best friends.
Sandra Henderson (06:18.178)
One thing that you said, I know we’re going to be diving into all the things about outsourcing and things like that, but one thing that you said during your intro that I want to dive into a little bit is something that I actually saw on your website when I was reaching out to invite you to join me for this interview, was that in your contact form, you actually specify specific types of weddings that you prefer to do and prefer not to do, and that you don’t take on weddings in dark venues. And I thought that this was…
amazing to see on someone’s contact form. So I would love to pick your brain about that a little bit. It was just kind of like a light bulb went off as you were saying that. Because I think that there are so many, I mean, in any career, there are so many different mindsets, but especially like in photography, you have people who are like just will take anything and everything because they want to work with everyone and they want the money to come in. And then on the like, polar opposite side of things you have
unfortunately, people who are discriminatory and only wanting to take on certain weddings, but there’s this middle ground where we have this creative freedom to say what we do and we don’t want to shoot without it being discriminatory. And so I would love to hear just like what brought you to a point to say, there’s nothing wrong with your wedding, but for my expertise, this is how I can best serve you. Oh, that’s such a great question. I love it. I love it. I love
I was totally that photographer that was more of a generalist for many years where I was like, I’ll take on anything and everything firstly because I was still exploring what I wanted. Secondly, because I really just wanted to be full-time ASAP. I just wanted to have my own business, not have another job. And so I did go through that chapter. And then when I realized when I went full-time, I was still kind of saying yes to certain types of weddings out of obligation.
of obligation and there was this like also guilt associated with it if I was gonna say like no I’m like am I being too much of a diva now is that like a thing to do where it’s like no I don’t want it and I had some conversations with other photographers in the industry many people felt that way too but a handful of them actually gave me some advice and oh my gosh who was it I don’t remember I think her name was Kayla but she this was so long ago.
Sandra Henderson (08:41.606)
I’ve been doing this for a while now. She said, well, I think our couples, if they hire us for their wedding, I think they deserve someone who fully 100% wants to be there, is so excited, and isn’t in the background thinking, oh, I wish I was shooting an outdoor wedding right now, or I wish I wasn’t in this hall. I could be so much more creative in a different place.
Because if our minds, if we’re not fully present and our minds are elsewhere, we’re actually not showing up in the best way possible and they deserve a photographer that gets excited about a church wedding or a hall wedding and there are photographers that want that. There are literally photographers that see things creatively and differently and are more than happy to shoot in those locations. So that’s what really like shifted that for me. And I realized there’s actually no point to feeling guilty.
and there is a way to like communicate this in a way where it’s beneficial for them. And so yeah, I have it on my contact page. I just write, I don’t accept weddings in dark spaces like churches and I say dark spaces because I mean, sometimes I take weddings on a dark space. It just depends on the venue if I’m creatively inspired. So but in general, I’m like, I don’t accept weddings in churches, banquet halls, golf courses because they’re not.
they’re not as conducive to my creative and candid approach. And it’s actually true in the sense that when I did photograph, let’s say at banquet halls, I shoot with a 50 millimeter and a 35 millimeter, literally 95 percent of the time. And so if I heard laughter and I shoot with those lenses because I really want the viewer to feel like they are right beside where that moment happened to feel that closeness. So that’s intentional. So if I heard laughter at all,
the other side of the freaking room, I would like run over but then people would be like, wait, what? Like she’s running, go to catch their attention. I wouldn’t be as stealth as I am now in like smaller spaces. And the moment would stop or I would miss it. Like it’s just like, it was affecting my joy, my happiness, my… And so I’m like, there’s nothing wrong with me just being more selective and saying, yes, this place is where I want to shoot. And I’m not going to lie, sometimes like…
Sandra Henderson (10:59.026)
Most of the time, it’s not like I tell couples, I actually ask about the venue in the contact form and then when they contact me, then I reply back saying, sorry, I don’t photograph in those spaces or sometimes I just say, I’m booked that day and that’s it. It keeps it easy. No one has to know, but the times that I did reply saying, it’s actually not a space that like I would photograph.
I would create the work that you expect from me best in because I would need different lenses. I say that because I care about you having the best experience possible. I think I want you to find a photographer that does create well in those spaces.” And they actually respond back saying, oh, wow, we appreciate your honesty because people would assume a business owner is a business owner. They want business. And so for them, it’s like this extra level of like…
customization experience and wanting the best for them, that they’re like, we really appreciate that, thank you. And then sending off referrals, like they’re well taken care of. So that’s my approach with that. And I really think that it just also like speaks to the fact that these people that are hiring us, they don’t have a photographic eye more often than not. They’re not in this industry. And so it’s up to us to educate them and say, these are the photos that you want, but it’s literally not possible to do in this space.
until we educate them with that information, they’re never gonna know about it. So I think that’s super important. And I love that you take that approach of just being like fully upfront and disclosing it all right from the get-go so that nobody’s disappointed down the road, including yourself, because there’s nothing worse than being in a space where you don’t feel creatively fulfilled. And also with that, I save my time too, because I used to notice that without me saying that on my contact page, I used to get so many inquiries for…
church weddings and church weddings for me specifically, again, I don’t like the vibe of like quiet must be on your best behavior. Like my branding who I am as a person is very like free spirited. I like being silly. I like again freedom being able to do what I want when I want. And so for me a church, although it’s like it’s a space that people other people gravitate to and feel at peace in and that’s amazing. I love that for them. It’s not a place I feel creatively inspired in.
Sandra Henderson (13:20.322)
So I’m like, I don’t want to be in a place where I feel like everyone has to be on their best behavior and quiet. And that’s just my perspective, right? And so it’s not that I’m like against, oh, churches are not cool or whatever. Like I genuinely, it’s just, it’s just a different vibe, different experience. And we all get to feel pulled to like the locations and vibes that we feel creative in. So, but yeah, it saves me time because I don’t get those inquiries.
anymore really. So I don’t have to spend extra time sitting at the computer being like, no, with like my template email, right? Also not on the backend too. That is the perfect lead into what we are actually connecting to talk about today is all about outsourcing and ways that you can save time and energy in your business, which is just like 1000% my jam. I could definitely relate, we were talking a little bit before we started recording.
just about trying to do all the things and how it can just leave you feeling so unfulfilled and How powerful it is to take things off your plate so you have more freedom in your life So yeah, I’m super excited for this topic What do you think are some hesitations that wedding photographers have towards outsourcing and getting started in the beginning? Oh my gosh I know them so intimately because I was that photographer that I was so hesitant I
I literally was so proud. It was this like proud like hustle and grind like badge of honor in a sense where I was like I give you guys a boutique experience which means I do everything myself like no one else touches it. It’s all done by me right? And I thought that was like…
The only, for some reason I had this illusion in my mind, that’s the only way to run a business that is successful, that is good, because if I have control over every single part of their experience, that means it’ll be exactly how I want it, that means I’ll get more referrals, and I’ll get booked more and I’ll be successful, right? I don’t know why I thought that, because there’s clearly so many examples in the world of successful businesses that have employees and get support.
Sandra Henderson (15:34.398)
like high-end restaurants or Apple, for example, right? And so I don’t know where that illusion came from, but I think possibly it could have come from the culture within the industry of everyone simply doing it themselves, right? Because I think I didn’t have anyone to shed a light on me as a small business owner, but that’s even a possibility to get help, to do things the way that I wanted them done. And when I was taught in school,
Sorry, when I learned photography in school, I went to a photography school in college. I have to ask where you went because I also went to Fanjia here in London. Oh, you went to Humber? Oh, yeah. We have these Canadian connections. I had looked at the Humber program, but I originally applied to Algonquin because they had film and I was doing film in high school.
And then I applied to, I think I applied to Humber and to Fanshawe as well. But as soon as I got my Fanshawe acceptance, I was like, that’s where I’m going. That’s awesome. Oh my God. That’s so funny because I looked at Fanshawe too and I’m like, well, which one’s closer to home? And so I did that. See, I was looking for the one that was furthest away from home. Oh, that’s amazing. I would have wanted that experience, but I was I was in a situation where I didn’t have a car. My parents were living paycheck to paycheck. I had to they both lost their jobs at some point. I had to.
literally it was a rough time in my life. Yeah. Plus, serving on the weekends, going to school full-time, I had to opt out of being part of the, what’s it called, volleyball, um, volleyball team in college. And they were actually doing so well. They were like number one and two in Canada and I got on the team, but then I couldn’t because my parents lost their jobs. Oh, it was a rough time, but I think it gave me that like grit that I have within me of like, I can do anything if I
Sandra Henderson (17:21.902)
probably ended up in Fanshawe because I’ve been like, I want that dorm experience, that like community experience. I’m so happy you got to experience that. Yeah, it was great. It’s definitely a great program. So any listeners that are Canadian, we definitely recommend some of our Ontario colleges for photography, which is so strange because like there’s so many people who are self-taught. And I definitely think like I’m glad that I went because it’s my learning style to just be in that sort of environment to learn things like lighting and flash and things like that.
I definitely by no means think that you absolutely have to go to post-secondary for photography. And so yeah, it’s always just so interesting to see the different approaches of how people got into the industry. Yeah, it’s so funny. It took me, it took, it was a two-year program. And I actually think I would have learned way faster not in the program. So I actually do the opposite. I like don’t recommend it. I’m like,
I had to also take English on the side. That was bullshit. I didn’t want to write essays. Like, oh, just so, it’s opposite. And what I was sort of, what I was going to say is like, we didn’t learn how to actually like have a team in college. Like they didn’t, they didn’t teach, they taught a lot of the photography skills, but those could have been taught in a so much less time. I don’t know what took them so long, honestly, because then they could have introduced other.
aspects like, okay, so you want a photography business, here’s how you communicate to train someone here, so you put a job application together. Like that wasn’t taught. And so that’s why I think I went into it with the illusion that I have to do everything myself. Right. So I think some of the things that pop up for photographers, like for them to hesitate even thinking about or starting to outsource is number one, it’s uncharted territory. Anything new that we’ve never done
And that’s just natural with growing our businesses. It’s natural, just like first learning our camera on manual. That was terrifying. I didn’t do it for a year. I procrastinated for a year. And then I’m like, what was I so scared of, right? So it’s just uncharted territory. It’s also counterintuitive because you’re thinking, wait, but I just shot this wedding and now I’m supposed to let go of like 100 bucks or 200 bucks to get it edited? Like…
Sandra Henderson (19:33.75)
what? That’s my money. Like I earned it, right? But what I’m noticing and what I’ve noticed so much over time, time and time and again for myself, my own experience, my students’ experience is successful photographers buy back their time in the areas that drain their energy so that then they can spend more of their time in the areas that excite them and give them more energy. And that is exactly how you grow your business.
faster but in an also sustainable way where you’re not burnt out. So it is counterintuitive and you it kind of what it requires of you is to take a leap of faith like all right I’m investing this money just like when you took a leap of faith of buying your first camera it was like thousands of dollars for the camera the lenses it’s like okay leap of faith here’s my money but then it’s an investment because it actually makes money for you right. Anyway I think I’m getting too ahead of myself but yeah another reason is
like obviously, so the money, they’re scared to let go of the money, but also loss of control. So assuming that if someone else takes over your editing or culling and it takes over is the wrong word because that’s what I used to think it would be. But you have final say, you get to quality check everything, but photographers assume that they will just like have a loss of control over the quality of what they get. And they’re also scared of being seen as less of an artist.
or even seeing themselves as less of an artist if they’re getting that support. It’s like, well, shouldn’t I be the one to finalize the look of the image, right? But what I’ve learned over time is that it’s literally a formula. Once you get your editing to a place where you’re like, okay, I kinda get it, now I know what I do to each image to get it to where I want it to be, I was just sitting there being like, this amount of warmth, this amount of exposure, add this. And it’s just like a formula. I felt like a robot. And I’m like, okay.
This is teachable to someone else. But those are the things that I think are holding photographers back. So uncharted territory, it’s counterintuitive. You don’t want to let go of your money. You feel like you’re going to lose control or nobody can do it as well as you can. Or feeling like you’re not as much of an artist or like an actual quote unquote business owner because you’re not doing everything yourself. Those are some of the things that come to mind.
Sandra Henderson (21:49.318)
I have definitely experienced all of those myself more than once over the last 10 years. So yeah, I can totally relate to that. And the idea of the like that we have to do everything ourselves. It’s something that actually just earlier this year, I realized is not just us who thinks that way. But there are other people who think that way too. And I’ve it’s been how many months since April and I’m still trying to wrap my head around the words that somebody had said to me, because photographers outsource their blogs to me.
And I do the writing and they’re like, well, how are their clients going to feel if they find out that somebody else is writing the blog? I’m like, but the blog literally has nothing to do with their capability of using their camera and producing great photos. And like we look at corporations and hospitals and all of these places that have somebody at the top and all of these people doing all the things below them.
I hate to say below them, but you know what I mean? Like in that system. Supporting the vision. Exactly. And so it’s so crazy to me that we think that artists and small business owners need to be doing everything all by themselves to be a legitimate professional. Yeah. And I think it’s also this illusion that you know how we can all be our own worst critic when it comes to, for example, our looks, the way we look, right? We can dissect ourselves. We know in the morning when I first wake up,
I think I look like this, I’ll fill in the blank, right? But then if I like do my hair and I do this, I’m ready to go out, I look like this, like fill in the blank, right? And so what I think we’re experiencing, but then on the outside looking in, if there’s another human like looking at you, they’re more drawn to what you have to offer with like your energy, the conversation, just the connection. They just want to be there for the connection. We don’t really care about that.
extra pimple you have right underneath your chin that someone can’t notice but you notice and it’s flaring out at you, right? So of course when we are in our business, we see everything. We know every single detail. But someone, just keep in mind someone looking in from the outside, they are literally just focused on your energy, the energy you’re showing up with, and your photos. Like, oh cool, cool photos, art, oh I like what I feel in the photos. They do not care about the how.
Sandra Henderson (24:05.846)
like a restaurant, what do you care about, right? And what comes to mind for me is I wanna go there, have a nice experience where I feel well taken care of, my needs are taken care of, which is my thirst and my hunger. But I also, whoever I’m going with, I just wanna have fun and connect. Do I care how the kitchen cooks the meal? Do I care like who sat me who didn’t? If I look at things the opposite way, if…
literally there was one person working at that restaurant and it was just the chef and the chef had to seat me and the chef had to get me my drink, the chef had to take my order while also making 20 other orders while then also somehow making sure that the quality was intact. It’s like, well, then I would notice that something is off and then I would be unhappy and then I would like never go back to that restaurant or recommend it and then that’s when that business feels that chef feels burnt out and that’s when he wants to quit and there’s no other way and business dies.
So it’s like that, it’s like if you get support in your business through outsourcing, the things that you think people will notice and judge you on and think you’re not a true artist is a total illusion. But the opposite, if you are overworked, burnt out, you’re constantly delivering things late and you’re working 12 to 15 hour days, you can’t catch up even when you’re working 12 to 15 hour days. That’s what people notice. They notice
the lower level of your energy. They can get upset because they paid you money and they’re not getting the level of attention they need. Or they were super excited for a date night and they didn’t get the images on time and they had to reschedule and who knows what went into that. Maybe they had a babysitter come, but then you’re like, sorry, I need two more nights. Those types of things are what people notice.
Sandra Henderson (25:53.938)
outsourcing can positively impact both your life and your business other than obviously like the taking work off your plate? What are some things that surprised you as you started alleviating all of your duties? Oh my god. Okay, first of all, you said duties. I’m so glad you just said that. I do that to my husband all the time. So good. For anybody that doesn’t know Chandler Bing from Friends. I love it. So good. Oh, that made my day. You know how many times I say that at a wedding?
And someone just looks at me like, I don’t get it. And I’m like, okay. Oh, that would make me so sad. There’s nothing worse than making like a solid reference at a wedding and nobody gets it. And you’re like, okay, I’m just gonna walk away. So now we’ll kind of get back on track. So those, yes, back to the duties. Perfect. So, okay, I love this question. I think before I dive into it, I mean, this is partially answering it. I did want to like paint the picture of like what happened to me.
with when I was hesitant to outsource and then when I actually was like, I’m, you know what, this isn’t sustainable. I can’t do this anymore. I’m going to try something new. So I, I’ve, what I found was I was shooting 15 weddings a year. This was back in 2015 and about 20 sessions or so. And I’ve just felt like I was hitting my head up against a wall, like over and over. I’m like, I want to grow my business, but boom, I can’t.
because I literally don’t have the capacity to take on any more weddings or sessions. And so that meant that I gave myself an income ceiling because I couldn’t actually get paid more, but I was still working, working on all the backend stuff. But when I finally was like, okay, I’m gonna let go first of the thing that I hate most, which was spending so much time editing. Well, like, I mean, let’s be more specific. I loved editing.
for an hour or two, because I got so creative and I got to see my images, but then the rest I was like, oh my god, I’m just a robot sitting here. I don’t want to be here. I want to be out there in the summer sun. You know what I’m saying. So I was like, okay, let me outsource the rest. Right? So that was like a freaking, it took some time to learn and figure things out. And I didn’t have it optimized then as I do now. But the result of me starting to
Sandra Henderson (28:11.122)
making, by the way, I like being super open to my numbers. So back then I was making $27,000 in take home income. So this is after taking away my expenses, my taxes and all of that. So it was only 27,000 and I was working 80 to 90 hour weeks from like May to November with 15 weddings and 20 sessions. I’m like, what the heck? Because I was also trying to grow the business and market like everything, right? Network. And so then
This is my result just one year later, one season later after beginning to outsource just my editing. I actually doubled my income. So I went to like, I think it was like $55,000 in take home income. And I cut my working time by like 30 to 40%.
huge. So I was literally experiencing just a year into outsourcing, working less and making more. And that’s when everything started shifting.
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I’m interrupting this episode for a quick second because I want to tell you all about something that I have used in my business day in and day out for more than six years now and I truly do not think that I could run my business without it. And that is Honeybook. Honeybook is an all-in-one CRM system that handles all the things that are client-facing.
Sending contracts and invoices, receiving payments, sending out questionnaires so you can get all those details to get ready for the wedding day, as well as having workflows and automations to start taking some of the work off of your plate, which I’m always a huge advocate for. There’s truly not enough time for me to talk about all of the incredible features that HoneyBook has. And if this is something that you’ve been thinking about trying out, or if you’re wanting to make the switch over to HoneyBook, this truly is the absolute best time to do it.
because HoneyBook is currently 50% off your first year. All you need to do to take advantage is head over to share.honeybook.com/Sandra and that will be applied to all new subscriptions. There are both monthly and annual plans available and annual plans as always will save you a little bit of money on top of that. And I hate saying these words, but in this economy, we know that every little bit counts.
Sandra Henderson (30:28.466)
So again, head over to share.honeybook.com forward slash Sandra to get 50% off your first year of HoneyBook. And so this is a lead in to you’re like, well, what are some of the unexpected things that come with that? So actually, let me just even paint the picture a bit further. So that was my experience a year later. I had to, it was a whole journey. I’ve never been taught how to do this. So there was like bumps in the road I had to figure out.
I had to switch editors many times, I had to hire a VA, then let go of a VA, get a new VA many times. But now I’m at the point where I’m working 25 to 30 hour weeks and this includes shooting. So this includes shooting even if I have like a 12 hour wedding day or two eight hour wedding days in a row or sessions. And I make a minimum $80,000 in take home income just from weddings and sessions.
So this isn’t even my education side of the business. So imagine that I went from working 80 to 90 hour weeks, making $27,000 take home income to 25 to 30 hour weeks, making 80,000 in take home income from like one pillar in my business. So that is just like- That is such a huge difference. Exactly. That is the picture that I wanna paint of like, if it’s possible for me, it’s possible for others.
And I’m really excited to talk about the ripple effect that creates in our lives because it’s not, yes, you save time in your business and you get to work on the things that like light you up more, that gives you more energy. Yes, you make more money, which is obviously we know that ripple effect. It like lowers our stress levels. It allows us to experience more experiences with our loved ones. It creates safety, that feeling of safety and security. I grew up in a household
intense debt and fights and arguments and my parents almost being divorced twice over it and this like scarcity and it was terrifying and it’s like I know how that can break up a family and affect relationships and the well-being of everybody and so I want to paint the picture of you can feel that safety around money you just need to buy back your time first and so
Sandra Henderson (32:48.166)
It’s really hard to unlearn some of that, like when you live with that as a child too, because that’s something that I realized as I was getting older is like, it’s hard to kind of put your like wrap your head around not having scarcity mindset around money. But I think that when you do like you’re saying start to see that ripple effect, it kind of starts to make it a little bit easier. I think it’s interesting because for some reason, I mean, everybody
like adopts these different beliefs. Mine was if I work hard enough, I’ll make enough money and then I’ll be secure and safe. But then what I realized is that at working hard, like actual grinding, working hard, yes, it gets you to a point. It got me to having a business in $27,000 in income. But then what I realized is to get to the next level of making even more money to feel extra safe.
it’s actually working smart that shifts everything. And so I wrote, I really wanted to like express everything that you can create in your own life intentionally when you do make the decision to buy your time back and be more intentional and proactive in your business and life. And so I actually, this is something I’m so excited about. It’s like the first time I’m actually saying it out loud and it’s a…
Manifesto that I created around the vision of the new lifestyle of the like the pretty much the free photographer like so if you think about the overworked the underpaid the burnt-out photographer like Let’s let’s help transition you into the liberated like free photographer So I’m gonna read this and I think this is literally when I read this Everyone will feel exactly what ripple effects are created through this. So here I go hustle and grind
No thanks. Starving artist, not into it. I’m stripping away the shoulds, the industry standards, and anything else that leaves me feeling constricted and small. I’m here to protect my greatest gift, my energy, my creativity, my presence, my flame, and I’m paid abundantly for it. My life feels like fun on Friday night and easy like Sunday morning. I choose pleasure over
Sandra Henderson (35:11.126)
beingness over busyness. I believe asking for help is sexy. The freedom to do what I want when I want turns me on, like taking a long spontaneous nature walk in the middle of a Wednesday just because I feel like it. I trust and dance with my intuitive nudges and flow through life like a calm and peaceful stream. I put my well-being first because when my cup overflows, it ripples to those I love.
Working smart is my superpower. If I want something, it’s already mine. I’m going to do things my way, the Omi way. I love that so, so much. Thank you for sharing that. That is incredible. I literally have goosebumps listening to you. So happy about that. Yeah, that was amazing. And it definitely paints the picture so, so perfectly. Yeah.
I’m like, that’s been a work in progress for so long. It feels so good that it’s all come together and that you got goosebumps. I’m like, yay, the intention happened as intended. Good, yeah, it definitely resonated with me for sure. I’m sure listeners will have that resonate with them as well because that was really good, really powerful. Thank you. I remember years ago, I have like…
I spent the last 10 years in my business trying to find the right person to credit this quote to but Google has served me no help in this situation. But the quote was something along the lines of nobody ever got into business for themselves to work more. And I think it’s so easy for us to get caught up in that because we’re hustling and we want to build that business and get our name out there and bring in all the clients. But
ultimately, like we could have worked less and made more money at a nine to five corporate job, like with your example of $27,000 take home for 90 hours of work, like that’s two paychecks, they’re like two weeks worth of work in one week. So like, you’re not that boss to your boss anymore. Why do we let ourselves treat that way? Right? Exactly. Yeah.
Sandra Henderson (37:17.666)
So for listeners who are just getting started in their outsourcing journey, is there any specific place that you recommend getting started? Yeah, so I have like three answers that come up for me for this. So first thing that pops into my head is what I did, which was like, pick the thing that takes away the most amount of your time and energy. And for that, that was like the big, I think it’s the big rock for most photographers is the editing.
And again, don’t hold on to the illusion that if you start outsourcing your editing, that means you have no creative say and even if you love editing, because there are photographers that love editing, there are photographers that are like meh, there are photographers that hate it, right? Everyone’s so different. And what I always suggest is like, do it your way. Like, you get to keep what you love and let go of what you hate, but pay attention. Get curious when you’re editing.
Is there a certain section of the day like, hello, probably portraits? Like most photographers are like, I love editing portraits and I want to let go of the rest, right? Then do that. Like that’s a beautiful place to get started because if you can just get started with getting more of your time back, a bigger chunk, that’s when you can like really feel it. It might be like there’s so many different ways like I teach this to my OMI students like there’s so many different ways you can go with outsourcing or editing and it could be like…
super budget friendly or if you want to invest a little bit more. So it also don’t hold on to the illusion that it’s expensive. It is not. There are options that I teach where you can literally get your editing outsourced for like $90 a wedding if you want, $80 a wedding. And the second idea that came to mind was if your nervous system isn’t yet feeling like regulated to like taking that big chunk of your business and like letting go of that.
then I would say go the opposite way and try with something small and digestible where you’re like, okay, well, yeah, I can like let go of that and then see how it feels. See that just have the experience of, I have my time back. There’s like a double of me right now in this moment. Like I’m doing this and there’s someone else doing that. It’s like, whoa, I want you to just like experience that because as soon as you do experience that, it becomes a game you start seeing how beneficial it is. And so with that,
Sandra Henderson (39:41.954)
Do something as simple as being like, I don’t wanna do my laundry or clean the house as much or cook and you can literally just put up a job posting for a side gig for someone to help five hours a week to start locally in your area and just let go of those five hours, get that time back, get that energy back and start there. And then the third answer, and this is like me, if I’m being honest, straight up, I would be like, I would suggest what, so what I have done throughout my career,
is I rather instead of figuring something out from scratch, I rather just like go to the person that has the answers that knows exactly how to do it. They figured it out through ups and downs and making mistakes and having wins and then they have the actual step-by-step process. I’d rather save my time and energy from that and then just like learn from that person. So I would suggest if what we’ve talked about in this episode resonated a lot with you and you’re like,
I’m ready, I’m so done with the overwork, with the burnout, with not making as much money as I want, then I would invite you to sign up for my Outsourcing Made Easy course because that is literally the fast track. Like I mentioned before, it took me freaking years to figure out how to do everything properly and that is all just figured out for you. You get to copy and paste my systems into your business, but doing it in a way that works for you. Again, it’s a lot of work.
We are all such unique beings that I would never say, this worked for me, so this needs to be, like how every photographer does it. No, I teach things in a way where you’ll learn the principles that are timeless, and that you can literally apply for the rest of your entrepreneurial career. That just work across the board in different areas too. So that’s what I would suggest, because why spend all of your time and money figuring it out when I can just literally show you how, so, yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. And I know from my own experience, like when I first started outsourcing, it is stressful in the beginning. Like you do have to find that right fit. You were saying back at the beginning of our interview, you had to hire and rehire editors and VAs a few times and I definitely had my fair share of bad editing experiences. But just like everything, there’s the right fit for everybody. And when you find that person or that business, that’s the right fit for you to outsource to.
Sandra Henderson (42:08.098)
that freedom that you get for me anyway, I was almost addictive. I was like, okay, what else can I find to outsource because now I want to get rid of all of it and I don’t want to do anything that I don’t like doing. Yes, exactly. Oh my gosh. And then when you hear us talk about how we had to start and like we found someone we had to let them go rehire, try find someone new, like we both experienced that, right? What I, for those of you listening, I don’t want you to feel put off that you’ll have to go through that process.
because that is exactly what I just call it, owe me in short, outsourcing made easy, owe me. That’s what owe me eliminates. Like my students don’t have to go through that process because they know how to put together the job posting, how to know exactly what to look for in an interview, to look for red flags and to look for what actually aligns well with them. And then they are literally happy with the person right away 80% of the time. I can’t say 100% of the time, right? That’s impossible. I think.
But 80% of the time my students come back to me and be like, oh my God, I found this person in 24 hours and they’re killing it right away. At what? They like work on shit when I sleep and I wake up and it’s done and I’m happy. Like that’s what I’m talking about when they talk about the fast tracks. So you don’t have to go through that whole process that we did. Yeah, oh, I love that. There’s, I mean, when we were just starting out in the industry, there was nothing in terms of like education. I think that’s probably a big reason why we both ended up in post-secondary for photography.
there was somewhere that I was going with this and I just totally lost my train of thought. That’s okay. Anyway, we’ll just we’ll just skip that. It might come back to me. But yeah, I oh, that’s what I was gonna say. Like, when I when we were both starting out and going to post secondary back on that train of thought, there was not a lot.
out there in terms of education online and we felt like we had to do everything ourselves and we had to go through those trial and errors. And if I could go back and change anything, it would be that I would kind of start my business when there was all these other resources around because it really just makes so much sense to have people who this is their expertise handle the things that are not your expertise. I remember
Sandra Henderson (44:19.826)
going out for coffee with my business teacher from the Fanshawe Photography Program. And he was I was telling him how I was just going to learn to do my own taxes. I’m like, my mom’s an accountant. I can handle it. I do my own bookkeeping. It’ll take me a little while, but it’s not a big deal. I can learn it. And he was like, you know, when people say that their uncle is going to shoot their wedding for them like they probably shouldn’t.
And so just because you can do your taxes, you probably shouldn’t. And I was like, OK, fair. I really can’t argue with that logic. So I will not be learning how to do my taxes. I love that you had that injected and installed so early on because right. That’s amazing. He did that for you. Yeah, he’s the best.
So do you have any final takeaways for listeners to either motivate them to try outsourcing or maybe someone who has had a bad experience with outsourcing and you want to encourage them to keep going? Okay, so what comes to mind is imagine it’s winter time and you’re standing on top of a hill and there’s a ton of like powdery soft snow and it’s perfect for sledding.
and you look to the right and you see there’s like a path perfectly like cut out, carved out for like Christian people clearly sledding down it, having a blast, enjoying it. And it’s easy, it’s smooth. It’s because it’s already been used, the path has already been figured out. And then I want you to think of that path that you see to your right as like a new
neuropath as like a neuropathway in your brain that has been created over time. And those things in your brain now come to you easily like habits like brushing your teeth, you don’t even have to think about it. It’s like you tobogganing down that hill, I’m brushing my teeth, no big deal. It’s so smooth, smooth ride. Just like you now know how to use your camera on manual. It feels like you’re driving a car. And then you’re standing at the top of the hill and you’re like, yeah, I’ve been down that road many times and I know how to like do all this.
Sandra Henderson (46:27.358)
the tasks in my business, I figured them out, but I’ve reached a point and I just don’t want to go down that path anymore. I’m exhausted. I want to make more money. I want to actually truly be freaking free. I actually want to be free. I don’t want to be working in my business. I want to be working on my business. So when you look to the left, there’s just snow. No one has toboggan down there yet. And
You’re like, you know what, what’s the worst that can happen? I’m just gonna sit down and shimmy my butt and like keep shimmying and shimmying and shimmying and there’s resistance, there’s resistance. And you’re like, this isn’t fun yet. Okay, but you get all the way down after some time, you go back up the hill, like, okay, I’m going to go again. And every single time you go again, the path gets smoother and smoother and smoother. So this is me illustrating how you doing something a little bit differently.
will feel, you’ll feel resistance initially. And it might not feel as fun. It won’t be feel as fun as you shooting the most epic, like sunset moments of like, whatever you photograph couples, families, weddings, whatever, right? Like it might not feel that way. But as you keep going, it’ll become more fun and fun and smooth. And just like Sandra said, it becomes addictive, it becomes like a game, it becomes fun, because you’re actually creating the reality that you’ve thought was farfetched. But then it becomes
happens in front of you. So I would just keep that illustration in your mind and just know that just as well as you have figured things out up until now, if you desire this new lifestyle, this new quality of life, really, you are able to make it happen. You have it within you. And just remember that what got you here to this point is great. And you’re here and you did it. But what got you here won’t get you there.
And so something needs to change. And that is just the actions you take and the decisions you make. That analogy was incredible. I love how you use storytelling to paint pictures about things like this, because for me anyway, and I know for a lot of other people, like I resonate so much with stories. As you were saying that, I was like, I knew exactly where this Hill analogy was going. And I was like, oh my God, that’s the best way to explain it. I loved it. That was so good.
Sandra Henderson (48:51.094)
So I have one final question for you. This one is totally off topic, but just a little kind of fun would you rather question. So I want to take us back to like the early, late 80s, early 90s of photography. And would you rather bring back selective color in photos or hazy pose glamor shots? Oh my gosh. Okay, honestly, easy answer.
the hazy pose glamour shots and only because my mom actually, I think she went, she tried to do some modeling in her early 20s. And I remember randomly going through old photos and these popped up in like this grid format, which looks like film, but not film, it was printed and all these options for her. And I’m like, Mom, is this you? And she’s like, yeah, that’s what I thought I would be modeling. And I’m like…
These are so cool. This is amazing. It was like a peek into like, wow, my mom in her early twenties when I was in my early twenties and it was just so cool. So now it’s nostalgic for me. Yeah. Like the selective color. I’m a very like sentimental person. So yeah, selective color. I definitely, we all did it. I mean, I did it, but not for like, we’re all guilty creatively, but not for, I didn’t, I wasn’t around as a pro photographer and people were doing it for weddings, but I played around with it. We learned it in freaking Humber.
Right? Yeah, I definitely had like, this is how you do select color. Yeah, I learned it too. I used to like, I used to love doing pictures of bands. And I remember like, I had so many pictures where I flipped it into black and white. And then I’d like bring just the guitar back. Yeah. That’s awesome. So often I did that. But I actually, I remember growing up, so my mom didn’t have these glamour portraits from when she was like in her 20s. But
When I was, I want to say like late childhood years, early preteen years, somewhere in there, I remember my mom always talking about how she wanted to go and have these Glamour photos done and so one day her and a couple of her girlfriends did and I remember seeing it like framed up in her bedroom where they like had like a green feather boa on. Yes!
Sandra Henderson (51:06.566)
Awesome. Well, Sarah, this was such a fun interview. Thank you so much again for joining me. And I hope that we’ll get to connect in person one day soon since we’re not too far away from each other. Of course. And could I also just share a handful of resources that I have? Oh, yes, absolutely. I’d love that. Okay, awesome. So I have a handful of them because, you know, podcasts, they come out, people listen to them right away. Then other times it’s like a bit later and everyone has different needs too and they’re different chapters of their business.
So firstly, you can also, I also have a podcast, you can tune in at Shine and Thrive Photography podcast. And if you’re listening to this episode, the week it comes out, the following week is I am hosting something I only host once a year, which is a free live masterclass. And it’s called the Four Secrets to Having More Time, Freedom and Money While Avoiding Burnout as a Photographer.
Sandra Henderson (52:05.922)
going to, so you know how I was like giving you some numbers of like how much I made here and there and all of that. In this masterclass, I go really deep into like the nitty gritty like how much money I’ve spent on outsourcing in different years and how much time it saved me and I show you graphs. And so it really paints the picture of like what’s possible in different areas of your business. And I think it’s super helpful to see that.
So I definitely illustrate that. And in general, you’re going to learn a lot more about how you don’t have to choose between being overworked and making great money or having more free time and making less money. You’ll get to actually visually see, because we all love visuals as photographers, right? How to make it happen. And yeah, like past people that have attended the class said, like, it was just so nice to see real examples of actual numbers.
And I do want to be, I’m all about transparency and stuff. So for those of you that are literally like thinking, okay, I need a course like this and it sounds amazing. I would highly suggest that you sign up for this masterclass because you’re going to learn a ton during the masterclass and at the end, I’ll introduce the course to you and give you all the details on it and you can decide, oh yeah, this is perfect for me or maybe not yet. Or like, no, this isn’t for me. And so yeah, literally if you show up, you don’t get the,
course, you’re going to learn so much. And then if you show up and get the course, amazing. I’m so excited to support you. So you can find that at, you can sign up for the masterclass SarahMonica.com forward slash masterclass. Keep in mind that it’s best to show up live because you’ll actually be able to ask me questions live. There’s also going to be an exciting show up bonus or two. One of them is worth 500. So it’s just really exciting like to keep things exciting like that.
But if one of the times and dates don’t work for you, make sure to sign up anyway, because I’m going to make sure to take care of you. You’re going to get the replay. I don’t want you to miss out on learning or getting access to the course just because the date and time doesn’t work. So sign up anyway. And then also for those of you that are listening to this outside of the availability of the live masterclass, I also have another free resource, which is my actual three-hour post-wedding workflow checklist.
Sandra Henderson (54:25.546)
So it only takes me three hours of my time personally to get to work on a wedding after I’ve shot it. It’s game changing. It saves like 70% of your working time behind a computer. So you can get that at sarahmonica.com forward slash freedom. And then lastly, if you are listening to this episode specifically on October 23rd to October 26th, 2023, that means the doors to my Outsourcing Made Easy program are open.
and they’re only open for that four short day sign up window for, and I only open them once a year. So that’s why I’m like, you need to know about this. So you can go to sarahmonica.com forward slash freedom. All the information is there, everything you’re going to learn. And you can just DM me on Instagram with any questions you have. My Instagram is Sarah Monica photo. That’s Sarah no H Monica with a K photo. And I always only
ask clarifying questions to make sure it’s the right fit for you in this chapter. I have turned people away that were like too early in their business that it just didn’t make sense yet. So I’m always super honest, just part of my values. And that’s pretty much it. Those are all the resources. I like to take care of my community. I love that. Well, thank you so much for sharing and I will definitely make sure to have all of those links in the show notes as well to make it super easy for everybody to access. Of course. Awesome. Well, thank you so much again. This was such a fun interview.
And yeah, we’ll definitely connect again in the future for sure. 100%. Oh my gosh. Wait, where are you in Canada? I need to know. Yeah, I’m in London. Okay, that’s so amazing. I came here for college and then I just never left because I love it here. Amazing. I’m originally from just outside of Barrie though. Okay, cool.
Oh my gosh, we’re so close. This is so rare. I know, it never happens. There’s been a couple times recording interviews for the season. I’m having to navigate people’s Wi-Fi connection in Paris and things like that. So it’s so nice to be like, oh, our colleges, we actually know where that is. Oh, that’s awesome. Well, thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much for listening. You can find full show notes from today’s episode at simplysandryevon.ca forward slash keeping it candid.
Sandra Henderson (56:38.206)
In the meantime, let’s connect. You can find me on Instagram and TikTok, just search SimplySandraYvonne. And if you’re loving this podcast, I’d be so honoured if you’d go ahead and hit that subscribe button and leave a review. Until next time.
About Sara
Meet Sara Monika! She is an intuitive documentary wedding photographer, photography educator and host of the top-rated podcast, The Shine + Thrive Photography Podcast. A rebel at heart, Sara’s mission is to shift the paradigm of the photography industry, both for her wedding couples and her fellow photographers. As a photographer, she seeks to give her couples the gift of true candids, so they can be free and present on their wedding day. As an educator, Sara empowers photographers to build freedom-driven businesses on THEIR terms, so they can live fully and freely as artists while working smarter instead of harder. She does this through her transformative programs Intuitive Storytelling, Crystal Clear Marketing, and Outsourcing Made Easy, which have so far helped hundreds of photographers from all over the world on their journey. When she’s not working, you can find her dancing up a storm, enjoying some wine + cheese, spending time in nature, binging her favourite personal + business development podcasts and making lifelong memories with her fiance Rory and her little boy Ben. To find out more about Sara and her work, head to saramonika.com or follow her on IG over at @saramonikaphoto.
No matter who you are or how long you’ve been in the wedding industry for, self-care is so important. But for all of my friends who are wedding photographers with chronic illnesses, self-care is even more important than you would think.
When I first started my business back in 2013, I didn’t know that I had endometriosis. And even though since my diagnosis, I’ve been able to trace it back until I was about 12 years old, which realistically means that I was likely born with it, I didn’t actually start noticing any sort of impact on my life until 2017. And it wasn’t until 2020 that I started having to actively manage it day in and day out. So the decisions that I had to make when I was starting my business, even part way through my business, are entirely different now than the decisions that I have to make managing a chronic illness day in and day out along with my business.
So today I’m going to be talking all about self-care practices for wedding photographers with chronic illnesses and things that you can do to make your daily life better and to make sure that your schedule isn’t overwhelming you.
Welcome to Keeping It Candid. I’m your host, Sandra Henderson, an international wedding and family photographer and business coach. I help wedding photographers use systems to build out the backend of their businesses to gain control and continue to thrive no matter what life throws their way.
And on a more personal note, I’m a strong Enneagram 3Wing2 who’s obsessed with tacos. And my love for travelling combined with navigating chronic illness life are just two of the many things that drive my passion for all things systems, workflows, and beating burnout as a business owner. Join me every week for a candid behind-the-scenes look at what it’s really like working as a wedding photographer, where I’ll give you actionable steps to take your business to the next level.
Absolutely no fluff here, friends, so go grab your favourite notebook and pen and let’s dive into this week’s episode.
Sandra Henderson (01:56.042)
So my first recommendation for self-care for wedding photographers with chronic illnesses is to incorporate Epsom salt baths into your routine. Now, like most natural remedies, there are widely varying opinions about the impact that Epsom salt baths have, what magnesium can do for your pain and things like that. But personally, I’ve seen a huge improvement in my life since I started doing this. And so that’s why I wanted to talk about it a little bit more.
I think what’s most important is not actually even using the Epsom salt. So if that’s not something that you want to do, then that’s totally fine. But taking the time to just press pause is so important and taking a bath is the perfect way to do that. Now pre-2022, I actually hated baths. I would always get so bored. It was like torture for my ADHD. I would get really hot in the water. Like I just, I hated baths.
But when I started just keeping it short and sweet, under 10 minutes, bringing a good book in with me, all of a sudden, I just really started enjoying taking this time out for my day. And for most people, hot water, regardless of the epsom salt, can help manage your pain levels. Now I say most because my best friend, actually, she doesn’t have a chronic illness, but she does deal with chronic pain from a past injury. And because of that, because of nerve damage that’s happened,
heat actually does the opposite for her than it does for me where I find heat and hot water to be a really relaxing thing and it helps my sore muscles. It actually makes her pain worse. So that’s something you obviously want to keep in mind when you’re figuring out what works for your pain and what doesn’t. No matter if you are looking for the temperature of your bath water or the way that you break down your schedule every day, I fully support doing things that work.
for you. If it doesn’t work for everybody else, that’s totally fine because they don’t matter. You need to just focus on yourself. So if that means taking a few minutes to have a bath, then I highly, highly recommend that. Now there’s this idea that using any sort of natural remedies for anything involving health doesn’t work. We all know that it exists. Some of us, myself included, have probably had those thoughts before, but here’s the thing. Even if it is all in our heads,
Sandra Henderson (04:17.682)
If it works, what the fuck does it matter? It’s not hurting anybody else, it’s helping us. So if you are thinking to yourself, oh, it’s all in my head, it’s not actually gonna work, or some person said this, some person said that, I want you to push all of that out of your head and just give it a try. You never know until you try it, right? I hate when people feel the need to share their opinion on things like that, when they’re trying to almost negate the fact that.
it’s working for you and take that away from you, but it’s not impacting them. So don’t let them take that away. If something works for you, then let it work for you and just embrace that. Now, next, I highly, highly recommend massage therapy, chirophysiotherapy, acupuncture. If these are accessible to you, then I highly, highly recommend taking advantage of them.
I personally see a massage therapist and a chiropractor. My massage therapist helps me with my back and my shoulders with hip mobility. And my chiropractor is adjusting my wrist for me because my favorite lens is a 70 to 200. And if you’ve ever used that before, you know that bitch is heavy, especially after an eight, 10, 12 hour wedding day. So my chiropractor is always adjusting my wrist for me, also adjusting my hips and my back.
to make sure that I am keeping my pain levels down and that I am as mobile as possible for a highly physical job. I also am going to be starting pelvic floor physiotherapy. If you are familiar with endometriosis and you know that this is something that people say, can be really helpful and I’ve never done it before. I’m a little bit concerned, or I shouldn’t say concerned, that’s the wrong word to use. I have a little bit of anxiety about it just because I’ve never worked with a physiotherapist before.
but I’ve heard good things, so we’ll see how that goes in the new year. Now also making sure that you are eating properly on a wedding day. This is a huge, huge factor when it comes to self care. On a wedding day, you are pouring so much of yourself out for your clients. And so it is really important to make sure that you are not also forgetting yourself along the way. When I was first starting out as a second shooter, I would wake up and I’d probably have some pop.
Sandra Henderson (06:34.558)
as I was getting ready because I was really, really healthy. I lived off of ginger ale and Coca-Cola and I wouldn’t eat breakfast, I wouldn’t eat lunch, I would get to the wedding and I’d be carrying around my bottle of ginger ale with me. And then sometime around, family photos and wedding party photos, my blood sugar would crash. I would start dry heaving behind my camera, I would start shaking, I would just get so, so sick. And so I would have to run.
find some juice or something to get my blood sugar back up. And the only meal I was eating all day was the meal that was being served during the reception. And so a lot of times it was actually six, seven o’clock before I was eating for the first time all day. And it is just mind blowing to think about that because I now many years later, 12 years later, like I need to have snacks with me all day long. I am.
I bring multiple bottles of water with me. I have to eat before I leave. If I have more than a like a couple hours of sessions in a row, I bring snacks with me. But making sure that you are eating properly and drinking lots of water and making sure you’re hydrated. These are things that are so important to your self-care. There’s nothing worse than the wedding hangover, right? I talked about that a lot at the end of the last season of the podcast. I think that was episode…
31 if you want to go back and check that out. But the wedding hangover it’s going to happen regardless, right? But if you’re not eating and drinking properly, it is just going to hit you that much harder. And so yeah, there’s a million reasons why that’s just so important. And then speaking of the impact that eating and drinking has on your body. We’re talking a little bit about our physical limitations here. Being realistic about your physical limitations is super important.
We’ve all seen those really gorgeous leather double harnesses, but personally I went with one that I found on Amazon that had a wider shoulder strap that was more foam because I just found it to be more comfortable. It definitely isn’t as aesthetically pleasing, but the purpose here is just because I needed to work within my physical limitations.
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Sandra Henderson (08:52.958)
I’m interrupting this episode for a quick second because I want to tell you all about something that I have used in my business day in and day out for more than six years now and I truly do not think that I could run my business without it. And that is HoneyBook. HoneyBook is an all-in-one CRM system that handles all the things that are client-facing. Sending contracts and invoices, receiving payments, sending out questionnaires so you can get all those details to get ready for the wedding day.
as well as having workflows and automations to start taking some of the work off of your plate, which I’m always a huge advocate for, there’s truly not enough time for me to talk about all of the incredible features that HoneyBook has. And if this is something that you’ve been thinking about trying out, or if you’re wanting to make the switch over to HoneyBook, this truly is the absolute best time to do it, because HoneyBook is currently 50% off your first year.
All you need to do to take advantage is head over to share.honeybook.com forward slash Sandra, and that will be applied to all new subscriptions. There are both monthly and annual plans available, and annual plans, as always, will save you a little bit of money on top of that. And I hate saying these words, but in this economy, we know that every little bit counts. So again, head over to share.honeybook.com forward slash Sandra to get 50% off your first year of Honeybook.
Now I used to have two cameras on each side of that harness, each with a lens on them. And one of those lenses was a 70 to 200. So we’re already adding so much more weight. And then once the reception came, there was also flashes on each of those cameras as well. So after about five, six hours of already being on my feet, and now I’m at the reception on my feet again, and I’m carrying around that much camera gear, it really starts to take an impact on your body. Even if you’re not.
really feeling it because you’re running on adrenaline and the excitement of the wedding day. So this year I actually scaled back. I switched back to just using a single camera. I do have a backup camera in my bag, but I’m actively just using one instead of having one on each hip. I also years ago decided to get a camera bag on wheels, so I’m no longer carrying everything around on my strap, so I’m no longer carrying everything around on my shoulder.
Sandra Henderson (11:08.462)
And years ago, I also bought a wagon. And if you’ve ever done a wedding with me before, you know how much I love this wagon. But it’s one of those four-wheel all-terrain wagons that you see a lot of parents using for their kids. And it is an absolute miracle on a wedding day. We can put my camera bag, my assistant’s camera bag, a cooler with water and all of our snacks and lunch and everything, light stands, tripod, jackets.
everything we could possibly need all fits inside this wagon and so my assistant and I can just wheel it around all day rather than having to move all of these bags and everything and we can just easily tuck it into a corner inside the venue so that it’s completely out of the way and not taking up too much space. I actually think I’m going to include the link to my Amazon storefront in the show notes because I got my wagon on Amazon.
and it has been with me for, I want to say maybe close to five years now. Those pandemic years really make everything a blur, but I’m pretty sure about five years now and honestly it’s one of the best purchases I’ve ever made. Another way that you can be realistic about the limitations that you have physically is just to keep an eye on the amount of time that you’re spending on your feet if that’s something that impacts you physically.
So when I’m standing around for long periods of time or if I’m walking for long periods of time, I usually start to have a lot of pain and tension in my pelvis and my lower back. And so I bought myself a pop-up stool, which you’ll also find inside that Amazon storefront I already mentioned. This stool can easily fit into that wagon. It can fit into a pocket in my camera bag. And I’m able to pop it out when I need to sit. And I just usually put it in the center aisle during the ceremony.
It’s a quite tall stool and I’m a pretty tall person as well. So when I’m sitting on this, not only am I completely unobtrusive to all of the guests, but I’m also able to still take photos from roughly the same perspective as I would if I was standing. So I’m not, you know, getting weird angles where I’m looking up everybody’s nostrils and things like that, and it’s super easy and discreet to just pop it open and then close it and pack it back up so I have seating available to me wherever I am going.
Sandra Henderson (13:21.726)
I also always carry around an ergonomic seat cushion. I have one that I’m sitting on right now that’s always in my office. I have one in my car and I have one that I bring on the go because these are an absolute game changer if you have any sort of hip, back or pelvis pain.
I highly, highly recommend getting an ergonomic seat cushion. And so I will put that on my stool if I need to, and I’ll also put that on my chair for the reception so that I am a little bit comfortable there, a little bit more comfortable there as well.
You can also put limitations on the number of hours that you’re working on a wedding day. I know a lot of photographers who put a limit on the amount of coverage that they offer at six hours because doing eight and 10 hour weddings just isn’t conducive to them physically. They won’t be able to give back to their couple in the way that the couple deserves and the way that the couple is expecting. And so that’s another really important takeaway from this. And again, driving that point home that you can do things the way that you want to.
and the way that works best for you. Every photographer might be offering six, eight, 10 hour packages, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t offer packages that look different. Earlier this year, I changed my packages to be four, six, and eight hours instead, because that’s more conducive to me, and it’s more in line with what my clients have always been looking for. And that leads me into one last takeaway. I want you to be realistic about your schedule.
We were just talking about the number of hours that you’re working on a wedding day, but what about all the other days, right? It’s super important to know what your limitations are, to set boundaries and not to overwork yourself. It is the absolute epitome of self care. For myself, in my photography business, I only do one wedding in a weekend. And if I have a wedding on a Saturday, I am not booking anything on a Sunday. Sunday is 100% a wedding hangover day for me. If I have
Sandra Henderson (15:15.298)
portrait sessions, I limit myself to three in a day, unless it’s a day of mini sessions, and then I kind of treat that as I would a wedding. So for example, this is airing in October. Next weekend, I have my fall minis coming up and I have those booked all in one day and so we’re pretending like that’s a wedding day and there’s nothing booked for the following day. Things like that are super important to me to make sure that I’m able to stick with my
post wedding and post session workflows, getting sneak peeks out, getting those galleries delivered and things like that. If I’m overworking my schedule and I am burning myself out day in and day out, then I have nothing left in me to get all of that other work done. So that is super, super important. When it comes to freeing up your schedule, I cannot recommend things like outsourcing or utilizing AI resources enough.
It’s all about working smarter and not harder. And there’s absolutely no rule, no matter what anybody tries to tell you. There is no rule that says you as the photographer physically have to be the one who does every single thing in your business. If anybody has ever told you that this is your permission to laugh at them, share some expletives, whatever you need to do.
to feel better about telling them that this is not working for you and you’re gonna just keep doing your thing. But before I carry on too much into that tangent, it’s actually what next week’s podcast topic is all about, so I’m gonna save all of that goodness for then. But to quickly recap my recommendations for self-care for wedding photographers with carotid illnesses, first was pressing pause on your day, taking a bath, whether or not you’re incorporating Epsom salts, just doing something for you that presses pause on all of the…
things is super important. If it’s accessible to you, also taking advantage of massage therapy, chiro, physiotherapy, acupuncture, and other holistic ways of treating your pain. Making sure that you’re eating properly regularly, but especially on a wedding day and having proper amounts of water. Being realistic about your limitations on your feet, on the number of hours you’re able to work, on the amount of camera gear that you’re carrying around and the impact that is putting on your body.
Sandra Henderson (17:34.206)
and being realistic about your schedule, knowing your limitations, not overworking yourself, and utilizing resources like AI and outsourcing your work so that you can work smarter instead of harder. Now, a few seconds ago, I talked about next week’s episode, and I am so excited to be joined by Sarah Monica, who is another Canadian photographer. She actually just lives a couple hours away from me, and we talked about all things outsourcing. Sarah is truly the number one person I think of when it comes to this topic,
The value that she gave in this episode is absolutely unreal. Like I don’t have the words to explain it, but she shares real numbers of what it looks like in her business before she started outsourcing and what her numbers look like now that she’s only working about 20 to 25 hours a week as a multi-business owner. Amazing, right? So if that is something that interests you, make sure you check back next Wednesday for all the goodness.
Until then, I would love to invite you to come and join the wedding photography unfiltered community on Facebook. This is a space for wedding photographers to come in, learn, support one another, and just embrace what it means to be a part of a community because that is so important as an entrepreneur is having a community that you can lean on and people to talk to who just get it.
So I would love to have you come over. You can find the link in the show notes and you can also go to facebook.com forward slash groups forward slash wedding photography unfiltered. All right friends, that’s it for me this week. I will see you next Wednesday.
Thank you so much for listening. You can find full show notes from today’s episode at simplysandryvonne.ca/keepingitcandid. In the meantime, let’s connect. You can find me on Instagram and TikTok, just search @SimplySandryYvonne. And if you’re loving this podcast, I’d be so honoured if you’d go ahead and hit that subscribe button and leave a review. Until next time.
About Sandra
Sandra Henderson is a wedding photographer, business coach, and podcast host based in Ontario, Canada. She specializes in helping wedding photographers create strategic systems for their businesses to help them get their time back so they can spend it doing the things they love most. As an entrepreneur who also navigates chronic illness life, Sandra also takes a unique approach to using systems that will help businesses thrive no matter what life throws your way.
On a personal note, she loves tacos, 90’s music, travelling, and spending time at home with her husband, step-son, and two cats!
Instagram | Wedding Photography Unfiltered Community | Freebies
Michelle Harris joined me for a short, sweet, and incredible interview all about a problem wedding photographers everywhere deal with all the time – getting ghosted by potential wedding clients.
It’s frustrating.
It’s disheartening.
And today on the podcast Michelle and I are talking all about why it happens and what you can do about it to help improve your booking strategy before engagement season.
Sandra Henderson (00:00.318)
No matter who you are or how long you’ve been in the wedding industry, I know that this one scenario is something that every single wedding photographer can relate to. You get an inquiry and it is from a dream client. You could not be more excited. It’s the perfect venue and a couple that you think that you are going to click with perfectly. You send your pricing information. You may even have a consultation with them and then it’s crickets.
Ghosting has become a huge problem that we deal with as wedding photographers. And today I am diving into that very topic with the one and only Michelle Harris. You’re listening to episode 33 of Keeping It Candid.
(Intro Music)
Welcome to Keeping It Candid. I’m your host, Sandra Henderson, an international wedding and family photographer and business coach. I help wedding photographers use systems to build out the backend of their businesses to gain control and continue to thrive no matter what life throws their way.
And on a more personal note, I’m a strong Enneagram 3-wing two who’s obsessed with tacos. And my love for travelling combined with navigating chronic illness life are just two of the many things that drive my passion for all things, systems, workflows, and beating burnout as a business owner. Join me every week for a candid behind-the-scenes look at what it’s really like working as a wedding photographer, where I’ll give you actionable steps to take your business to the next level.
Absolutely no fluff here, friends, so go grab your favourite notebook and pen and let’s dive into this week’s episode.
(Music fades out)
Sandra Henderson (01:32.522)
That’s right, friends. Today on the podcast, I am joined by the one and only Michelle Harris. If you have not heard of Michelle Harris, then you may have been living under a rock for the last few years, but she is a destination wedding photography industry leader based in Washington, DC and is renowned for her expertise in couples posing. Her exceptional skills have garnered features in prestigious industry publications like Martha Stewart Weddings, People Magazine, and The New York Times and her unwavering dedication to inspire and empower photographers worldwide drives her passion to help them achieve six-figure businesses through innovative marketing strategies and advanced photography techniques, all while avoiding the burnout of a relentless hustle.
So you can see that Michelle and I, our vibes totally align. I’ve had the pleasure of taking some of her workshops, both online and in person, and let me tell you guys, you’re going to have so many takeaways from this conversation.
Like I was saying earlier, ghosting is something that’s happening more and more in the industry and it can be really frustrating and disheartening. I know all of you are pouring your hearts and souls into the business that you’re running and so it’s frustrating when you don’t hear back from people, especially when you’re just really excited about the potential of working with them. So that’s why I was so excited to dive into this topic with Michelle.
She and I talked about some of the main reasons why people are ghosting their wedding photographers and other wedding vendors that they’re reaching out to. And we talked a little bit more about things you can do in your business to make sure that this is happening less. We both agreed that it’s something that you really can’t prevent from happening altogether, but there are definitely steps that you can take in your business to make sure it’s happening less and give you a little bit more success in your booking strategy.
I don’t know if maybe we’re just more aware of it now or if it really is happening a lot more than it used to, but photographers everywhere, we’re getting ghosted all of the time by our clients. And I would love to hear from your perspective, what do you think is like the biggest reason that keeps happening to wedding photographers?
Michelle Harris:
Well, I do think that it is something that is getting more and more popular because I feel like people are reaching out to more and more photographers before making a decision as of late. I also feel like people are planning their weddings a little bit on the shorter range because of COVID. I think they’re scared to plan things too far out. That is the main reason why they’re like, okay, let me just inquire with a whole bunch of different photographers and then whichever ones we can’t afford or we don’t like, they just don’t say anything. And I think it’s just because nobody really wants to admit that they can’t afford something. Like it never feels good. So I feel like that’s the number one reason is because they literally either can’t afford it or like something else has a little bit more value for the same price, whatever it is, it’s typically price. All based on, excuse me, it is all based on the fact that they don’t wanna have that negative feeling where they have to say, hey, I can’t afford you.
Sandra Henderson:
Yeah, that’s such a good point. And then I always feel like too, in the times that I have had to have that conversation and being like, sorry, this is out of my budget. I worry that people are gonna like counter it. And I don’t wanna have to have like a back and forth. So I think that possibly comes into play as well for these couples too.
Michelle Harris:
Absolutely, because I mean, it’s just not a good feeling. You might even just say, hey, you know, we just decided to go with another photographer due to budget. And then when the photographer says, says something back, then they’re going to be like, oh, well, maybe it really wasn’t price. We won’t really know, but it’s just going to make everybody uncomfortable. So they just won’t say anything. Yeah, that is so true. So what do you think are some ways that photographers can stop this from happening? Do you think that’s even possible? Do you think that it’s just kind of something we have to embrace as part of the job now? Well, I mean, I do. It’s definitely not possible to just eliminate ghosting.
Sandra Henderson:
Yeah, I agree.
Michelle Harris:
It’s just what it is to respond to everyone. But I do think the number one way to avoid that is by getting your clients on the phone as soon as possible. So not just saying, oh, send an email back immediately saying, let’s get on the phone and do this. It’s calling them. Because if you have a problem with any company, if your internet goes out and you’re calling Verizon and you’re like, hey, my internet is out. We go online and you say, hey, my internet is out. What’s going on? If someone picks up the phone and calls you, you’re gonna be ecstatic because someone cared enough to solve your problem. That’s what clients are having. They have a problem. Their problem is they need photography. So they go and they say, hey, I’m getting married on this date, can you help me with this? And the first person to pick up the phone and call them is gonna stand out over anybody else. And it’s really that simple.
It doesn’t matter how great your email template is, it is not going to make you stand out over someone who actually had a genuine connection on the phone with somebody.
Sandra Henderson:
Yeah, that’s one thing that I’ve always loved in following your education and things that you teach other photographers is how you push this connection over the phone. I think it’s so different from what everybody else is teaching. So why do you think it is that it works so well?
Michelle Harris:
Just because we want everything now. Okay, like we want to order things online and we want it like in our hand immediately. Like as soon as you press the button, we want it. Now we’ll wait a day or two now, because we’re spoiled. We can’t film that fast. But like ultimately we want everything when we want it. So the faster you can respond to an inquiry, which is all different types of different studies out there saying like, you know, if you get to them within an hour or 30 minutes or whatever, that they are more likely to go with you.
and that’s just talking about email or any other way that you respond. But when you have a personal touch, which is very rare nowadays, actually genuinely connect with a human, then it’s definitely gonna make you stand out.
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Sandra Henderson:
Yeah, that is so true. And do you think that there’s any benefit to the way that you’re reaching out to them? Like should photographers be just making that phone call? Do you think reaching out by text to set up a time works best? Do you think there’s any like right way to approach it?
Michelle Harris:
I mean, I don’t think there’s a right way for anything, because there’s a million ways to do all the things. Yeah. But I’ve found that picking up the phone and just calling them, step one, is already exactly where you need to go. But if they don’t answer, don’t leave a voicemail, because nobody likes voicemails. Nobody likes having to listen to a voicemail. So at that point, you can text them and say who you are and that you tried to give them a call. And you can either try to set up a phone call within that text message, or you can say Look out for an email that I sent in response with all of the things that you asked for, whatever, depending on all the information you collect in your contact form.
Sandra Henderson:
I love that because it really gives you an opportunity to show the couple that you’re actually reading the things that they’re putting in their inquiry, and they’re actually not just another faceless couple to you.
Michelle Harris:
Right. I mean, and that is why I think it’s so important to make sure that you have certain questions on your contact form so that you don’t have to ask them.
So like a lot of people just have names and then email or message or something like that. But if you have both of their names, if nothing else, you have both of their names, you can at least call them and say, hey, it’s so-and-so, I’m calling for so-and-so. And then when you start the conversation, oh, how did you and so-and-so meet? Cause you have their names. So that’s already like a little bit more personal and just helps you connect with them faster really would help, I think, build into that know trust factor that we’re all achieving or striving for in our businesses, that chance to just kind of have a quick little chat. And again, just letting them know you actually read their inquiry, they’re like, oh, this person actually, we can trust them to pay attention to those little details.
Sandra Henderson:
Absolutely. So do you think that when you’re able to make these connections over the phone as the couple is first inquiring that it’s still important to have in-person consultations down the road?
Michelle Harris:
I personally don’t. I mean, my in-person consultation down the road is engagement session. Yeah. And then the wedding. And then if you want to do in-person after, then yeah. But I mean, it’s just the day and age right now. Like people are not wanting to get in their car and drive somewhere and go speak to people when they know that they could right after making dinner, sit down and turn on Zoom and talk to somebody. Yeah, that’s so true. A lot changed after COVID. We realized how easy it is to connect virtually and how not everything is completely lost if you don’t meet someone in person.
Sandra Henderson (10:36.518)
Oh, that is such a good point. I can’t remember the last time I had an in-person consultation. I give people the option, but they all just want to hop on Zoom. And I am totally fine with that because I’m in my house. I can just roll on upstairs, put a nice shirt on, and we’re good to go.
Michelle Harris:
Absolutely. I mean, and then it’s really easy. When you’re on Zoom or Skype or whatever anyone’s using, you can easily share your screen and show them different galleries or walk them through your price guide, different things like that.
So I mean, with the technology we have, I don’t personally think that it is a big deal to me in person, because you can absolutely feel someone’s energy and their vibe through the computer.
Sandra Henderson:
Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree with that. Well, that really was short and sweet, but covers all the questions that I had. Do you think that there are any, like if listeners are gonna take one thing away from this episode that they’re gonna apply to their business as soon as they are done? What would you hope that one takeaway is for them?
Michelle Harris:
It would actually be something right before we get to the point where you pick up the phone. So I have a lot of photographers, there’s a lot of different information out there where they say, oh, well, someone told me to put all of my pricing on my website. Someone told me to just put my starting price on my website. Anywhere you look, you can find different advice for that.
I personally believe that you should put your starting price or average price, either one or both, choice is yours. But the most important place to put it is right above your contact form. Because people may go to the investment page that you have set up somewhere, or you may have it in a dropdown that they didn’t click. And you’re like, how did they not know how much I cost? I have the investment page. Well, they didn’t go. Because in 2023, your Instagram is your portfolio. So people meet you, they’re like, Hey, what’s your Instagram? Not what’s your website. And so they’ve already seen your work. They’ve already maybe even gotten to know you a little bit like virtually, and then they clicked on your website. They’re probably just going to go to the contact page. Yeah. And so if they just go there and you don’t have Hey, I start here or my average, you know, collections are this, and then they fill it out. You’re way more likely to get ghosted because they had no idea where you started and just filled it out. And then when you start at 5,000 and their budget’s 1,500, they’re not gonna respond because there’s no meeting in the middle. If somebody only has 1,500, the likelihood that they’re just all of a sudden gonna have five is relatively low. So they’re gonna feel uncomfortable and they’re going to not respond most likely. So if you have that right above there, they’re not going to fill it out. So like, yes, it’s our job to show value in what we do and maybe upsell them from where we start.
But it is not our job to get someone to triple or quadruple their budget because they inquired. So that’s my take on that. That’s such a good point. And I think it helps to just have that information. It feels redundant to us, but we have to remember you brought up that good point. If it’s on the investment page and that’s the only place that they can find it, there’s a high likelihood that they’re not going to see it. And so when you have it in all of these places…
It attracts the people that you want. It repels the people that are not going to be able to afford you and helps eliminate that ghosting factor too. Yeah, because I mean, not having it on there at all, no matter where you are, like where you start, can be problematic. So, and another colleague of mine, we started exactly the same, but he did not have his starting price on there. And he’s like really, really popular on Instagram and things like that. He’s like two or three times the amount that I have. And so this girl inquired and she was like, hey, I’m inquiring because I know that I can’t afford him. And, you know, made some sort of joke, but like, here I am, you know, inquiring with you. And I’m like, we’re the same price. Yeah. I was saying nothing. But like that just deterred her because she was too afraid to have to have that awkward conversation of I can’t. So she avoided it all together and inquired with me because it says where I start.
Sandra Henderson:
Yeah, that’s so true. I would totally be the same as her in that situation for sure. If you don’t even realize how many people don’t value themselves, so they may have a lower price than you could have afforded, but we’ll never know. You never know, right?
Sandra Henderson:
Yeah, exactly. Those are such great points. Well, thank you so much for that. And I have one final question. That’s just a little kind of like fun would you rather question.
Sandra Henderson (15:20.135)
So I was wondering would you rather book a local wedding at your highest package or book a dream wedding at your lowest package?
Michelle Harris:
That is so hard. That’s insane. I wanna say my highest package down the street from my house. Yeah. But I think that comes with me having done this for eight years now. I’d rather just make a lot of money and go home. I can take some of that money and go travel to wherever that dream wedding would have been. Right. But I mean, I know a couple of years ago, if you’d asked me, hands down, it’d have been the destination, but it all just depends… definitely close to home.
Sandra Henderson:
Yeah, I have to agree with you. Like I love to travel. I love destination weddings, but it is so nice when I only have a five-minute drive home from a wedding at the end of the day.
Michelle Harris:
I mean, people don’t realize how much extra work it is and more often than not, how much more you sweat. And all of the things that come with it, it looks glamorous maybe on social media, but it’s like, oh, we’re gonna do it on the beach. Like, yeah, you’re sweaty and covered in sand and it’s disgusting.
The pictures will be great though! It’s not that fun sometimes.
Sandra Henderson:
No. I don’t know if this happens to you, but it seems when I do destination weddings in the tropics that the hottest day of my week is the wedding day. Without fail. Every single time.
Michelle Harris:
100%. That is always how it’s going to go. You gotta be mentally prepared for that or stay home.
Sandra Henderson:
Yeah, for sure. Awesome. Well, thank you so much again, Michelle. This was amazing. All of these tips were incredible. I know they’re going to be so helpful to listeners. So thank you so much. And I hope that our paths cross again one day soon.
Michelle Harris:
Girl, they better.
Sandra Henderson:
We love a short, sweet and powerful interview around here. And this conversation with Michelle was just that. We aren’t very far away from engagement season right now, which means booking season is just around the corner too.
Sandra Henderson (17:20.698)
I hope that you got some takeaways from this interview that you can use to make this the best booking season that it can be. Now if you want to hear more from Michelle, there are a couple places that I want you to go and check out. First, the M. Harris Education Community on Facebook. I have been in Michelle’s communities on Facebook for years now and they are such a friendly community to be in where people just genuinely are there to help and support each other and cheer each other on and that is 1000% my vibe so I highly recommend going to check that out.
And then the next place is the Hustle Vault, which is Michelle’s monthly membership. And this is filled with so much education in terms of posing, client experience, running your business, so many things. So if that’s something that interests you, head over to the show notes and you will find links for both the community and for the Hustle Vault in there. Now next week on the podcast, I am gonna be back to talk all about self-care practices for wedding photographers with chronic illnesses.
It’s a topic that’s near and dear to my heart because it’s something that I deal with day in and day out. Whether you also have a chronic illness or if you are a parent or a caregiver, have a full-time job or any other sort of responsibilities that takes you away from the business that you’re running, this is an episode that I think is going to be so valuable for you. Especially heading into October, they say that October is sweating photographers what April is to accountants.
In my experience, that couldn’t be more true. So this is the time of year that I really, really like to drive home the importance of self-care and taking time out for yourself as a business owner. As I was recording this, I almost started going off on a whole tangent because I’m just so passionate about it. But I’m going to save all of that for next week’s episode. So make sure you check back next Wednesday.
Thank you so much for listening. You can find full show notes from today’s episode at simplysandryvonne.ca/keepingitcandid. In the meantime, let’s connect. You can find me on Instagram and TikTok, just search @SimplySandryYvonne. And if you’re loving this podcast, I’d be so honoured if you’d go ahead and hit that subscribe button and leave a review. Until next time.
About Michelle
Michelle Harris, a destination wedding photography industry leader based in Washington, DC, is renowned for her expertise in couple’s posing. Her exceptional skills have garnered features in prestigious industry publications like Martha Stewart Weddings, People Magazine, and The New York Times. Michelle’s unwavering dedication to inspire and empower photographers worldwide drives her passion to help them achieve six-figure businesses through innovative marketing strategies and advanced photography techniques, all while avoiding the burnout of a relentless hustle.
Instagram | M Harris Education Community | Freebies | The Hustle Vault
Sandra Henderson (00:00.318)
It feels so surreal to be saying these words, but we are officially back for season two of Keeping It Candid.
(Intro Music)
Welcome to Keeping It Candid. I’m your host, Sandra Henderson, an international wedding and family photographer and business coach. I help wedding photographers use systems to build out the back end of their businesses to gain control and continue to thrive no matter what life throws their way. And on a more personal note, I’m a strong Enneagram three-wing two who’s obsessed with tacos, and my love for travelling combined with navigating chronic illness life are just two of the many things that drive my passion for all things, systems, workflows, and beating burnout as a business owner. Join me every week for a candid behind-the-scenes look at what it’s really like working as a wedding photographer, where I’ll give you actionable steps to take your business to the next level. Absolutely no fluff here, friends! So go grab your favorite notebook and pen and let’s dive into this week’s episode.
(Music fades)
Sandra Henderson (00:56.15)
Now, if you’re new around here, I want to take a quick second to introduce myself. My name is Sandra Henderson. I am a wedding and family photographer, a systems expert, and your host of Keeping It Candid. We’re back for season two, like I mentioned, and this year it is going to be even better than ever. If you’re a podcast listener, I’m sure you hear that all the time. I know people are always saying it, but I promise you around here, I really mean it.
Last year, I was just winging it. I was having fun. I was showing up messy and just trying to learn all the ins and outs of what it means to have a podcast and be a podcast host. And I loved every second of it. But this year or this season, I wanna show up a little less messy. I wanna have a little more fun and things are going to be way more unfiltered than they were last season. But before we dive into all the goodness that is coming along in the next few months, let’s take a quick second to catch up.
Since May, it has been wedding season up here in Canada. I have had weddings on the go. I’ve had many sessions on the go. I ran the beta round of my very first boot camp program for wedding photographers, and that was absolutely amazing. I’ve launched a ton of freebies and a ton of new services, including VIP days, HoneyBook housekeeping, HoneyBook moving day account setups, and so much more. I’ve really loved diving into.
just different ways that I can serve other wedding photographers to help them take some of the work off their plate and just make running a business a little bit easier for them. It has been amazing and I didn’t ever think I would be able to find something that I love to do as much as I love photography. And I’m so happy to have proven myself wrong with this. So if I’ve had the chance to work with you over the last few months, I wanna give you a huge thank you for being a part of that because without you then I wouldn’t have found this new love.
On the personal side of things, my stepson turned 16 in June and he’s learning how to drive. So I have decided to start researching retirement homes because I feel like that is essentially the next step that is happening at this point. Because I’m pretty sure I blinked and he turned from 2 to 16. So now the next time I blink, that logic says that I will be moving into a nursing home. So.
Sandra Henderson (03:12.63)
That’s kind of how things are feeling here. I’m feeling a little old these days, but I have to say, I like I’m gonna knock on wood as I say this, but raising a teenager has been the total opposite of what I expected it to be. Now he is only 16. We’re not out of the woods yet. We’ve still got a few years left to go, but so far it has just been so much fun having him a little bit older and watching him just
grow into his personality and figure out who he is and starting to develop a style and things like that. It has been awesome. So I’m really enjoying that aside from the part where I feel so old. Now for my husband, Matt, for anybody who doesn’t know back in 2021, he was diagnosed with type two diabetes. And since then he has been working so hard to take control of his health. And we were so excited to find out that he has gotten his
blood sugar levels back down to pre-diabetic levels and is officially on his way to remission. So that is super exciting and I’m so proud of him for all the work that he’s done to just make things better for himself. And then for me, if you are a new listener, you may not know this already, but if you have been following along for a while, you know that I have stage four endometriosis. We are a household of chronic illnesses around here.
I finally got in to see a new specialist for endometriosis back in July and I had been waiting for about two years for this appointment so I was really happy when it finally came. We are on a new management plan right now and that I am not taking any sort of medication or hormone for symptom management. We are trying to get my body back down to a baseline to see exactly what’s going on and to help prepare us to go in for another surgery hopefully in 2024.
It has not been a fun time going off all these medications. They were all hormone medications. And if you’ve ever had to take hormone medications yourself or if you’ve ever had your hormones go completely out of whack, you know, it’s not easy. It’s not the same as like when we were going through puberty and things like that. Like there’s definitely similarities, but it’s a little different. There was a lot of sleepless nights. There was a lot of days where I just haven’t felt like myself, but.
Sandra Henderson (05:33.482)
It’s getting better and better each day. And when it comes to my health, I’m always fine to do things and to push past hurdles if it means that we’re working towards something bigger and that’s what we are doing now. So it’s just kind of a pain in the ass that we have to get through, but it’ll be worth it just to prepare to go in for another surgery down the road. So that’s kind of.
a little update of what’s been going on over the spring and summer months since season one of the podcast ended. Now I mentioned at the beginning of this that season two is going to be so much better than season one was. So I want to give you a little bit of a sneak peek of what you can expect. So I already said that we are going to be more unfiltered, we’re going to have so much fun along the way. And one way that I’m going to be doing that is that I am ditching the script.
In season one, I definitely typed up my episodes ahead of time, aside from the interviews, but when it was just me talking, I wanted to make sure I knew exactly what I was going to say, exactly how I wanted to say it, and wanted to make sure that I didn’t miss a thing. And I loved it. I think that it all went really well. But I want the episodes where I don’t have a guess to be just as conversational as the ones that do.
So this year I am ditching the script and let me tell you guys, I am so freaking nervous about this. I have a feeling that I am going to be doing a lot more editing than I ever did last year, but I think it’s gonna be worth it. And so speaking of those interviews, some of the guests that we have lined up, I’m not gonna tell you who they are, but some of the topics that you can expect for us to be talking more about.
We’re going to be talking about using AI for your business. We’re going to be talking about consistency and marketing, accessibility in the wedding industry. And of course, all the workflow strategies and tips for your systems processes of automations that you could ever need, because that hasn’t changed at all since the last season. I am still your systems obsessed bestie. And I want to share all the ways that you can just make work easier for yourself as a wedding photographer.
Sandra Henderson (07:49.09)
So this season you can still expect weekly episodes every Wednesday. Last season they were released every Tuesday. Well, I shouldn’t say every Tuesday because like I said, I was kind of just winging it and having fun. And so the episodes definitely did not drop every Tuesday. But this year they will be coming out every Wednesday. And if you’re looking for a little bit more in between those episodes, I would love to invite you to come over to the wedding photography unfiltered community on Facebook to hang out there.
It’s been a little bit quiet during busy season because I honestly just didn’t have the time. I had a lot of editing and things like that on the go. A lot of other things going on personally that I had to take care of. And so it’s been a little bit quiet in there, but things are going to be picking back up again now that fall is here. And I know that you are going to love this space as much as I do. If you’re all about community and all about learning from one another and supporting one another and just making the wedding photography industry a better place, then
this group is 100% for you, head over to facebook.com forward slash groups, forward slash wedding photography unfiltered and come and join because we would love to have you there. Okay friends, those are all of my updates. We are gonna be back next week with our very first guest, the one and only Michelle Harris, join me to talk about the number one reason why people are getting ghosted by potential wedding inquiries and what you can be doing to fix the problem.
something that I know I go through all the time. And so I know that other photographers are definitely gonna be able to relate. So if that’s something that you need a little help with as we head into this year’s engagement season, then definitely make sure you check back next Wednesday and I will have all of that goodness ready for you on whatever your favorite podcast player is. And then what kind of podcast host would I be if I didn’t take a quick second to ask if you could head over to Apple Podcasts and leave me a review for keeping it candid.
It means so much to me to have your support and to hear what you have to say about the show. You will find the link in my show notes or you can just type Keeping It Candid into your favorite podcast player. Okay friends, I am gonna wrap things up here. This went so well as I was recording without a script and just some notes to go by. We’ll see how I feel about it once I get started with editing. But welcome back and thank you so much again for being here.
(Outro Music)
Sandra Henderson (10:10.094)
Thank you so much for listening. You can find full show notes from today’s episode at simplysandrayvonne.ca/keepingitcandid. In the meantime, let’s connect. You can find me on Instagram and TikTok just search @simplysandrayvonne. And if you’re loving this podcast, I’d be so honoured if you’d go ahead and hit that subscribe button and leave a review. Until next time!
(Music fades)
About Sandra
Sandra Henderson is a wedding photographer, business coach, and podcast host based in Ontario, Canada. She specializes in helping wedding photographers create strategic systems for their businesses to help them get their time back so they can spend it doing the things they love most. As an entrepreneur who also navigates chronic illness life, Sandra also takes a unique approach to using systems that will help businesses thrive no matter what life throws your way.
On a personal note, she loves tacos, 90’s music, travelling, and spending time at home with her husband, stepson, and two cats!
Website | Instagram | TikTok | WPU Community
Sandra Henderson 0:00
Breaking into a new market in the photography industry is no easy task, but it’s something that I really think every wedding photographer is going to experience at one point or another during their career. Whether you’re looking to break into a market at a higher price point like working at luxury weddings or if you’re trying to break into like the destination market or elopement markets, or if you’re relocating, there are so many instances where you’re going to be faced with the need to attract clients in a totally different areas and the one that you have been working in, it almost makes it feel like you’re starting your business all over again. But there are some ways that you can make the transition a little bit easier.
Sandra Henderson 0:36
This week on the podcast, John from All Heart Photo joined me for an interview. He’s a wedding photographer and educator based in Houston, Texas, and is also the host of the Wisdom In The Tangents podcast, which I had the absolute pleasure of being a guest on recently!
Sandra Henderson 0:51
John and I chatted all about what it’s like breaking into a new market reasons why wedding photographers might get to a point in their careers where that’s becoming a reality for them. And how did make the transition easier along the way.
Sandra Henderson 1:03
You’re listening to Episode 30 of Keeping It Candid.
Sandra Henderson 1:07
Welcome to keeping it candid. I’m your host, Sandra Henderson, an international wedding and family photographer and business coach. I help wedding photographers use systems to build out the back end of their businesses to gain control and continue to thrive no matter what life throws their way. And on a more personal note, I’m a strong Enneagram three weighing two who is obsessed with tacos and my love for traveling combined with navigating chronic illness life are just two of the many things that drive my passion for all things systems, workflows, and beating burnout as a business owner. Join me every week for a candid behind the scenes look at what it’s really like working as a wedding photographer, where I’ll give you actionable steps to take your business to the next level. Absolutely no fluff here friends. So go grab your favorite notebook and pen and let’s dive into this week’s episode.
Sandra Henderson 1:55
Welcome, John to the podcast. I’m so excited to have you here. I’m so excited for us to have a chance to switch roles after I had a chance to be on your podcast for an interview recently. Before we dive in, I would love if you would just take a second to introduce yourself and let everybody know a little bit about what you do.
John Mansfield 2:12
Absolutely, yeah, I’m excited to be here as well and get to chat again. This is gonna be it’s gonna be fun. I’ve been looking forward to this. Yeah, I’m John Mansfield. I’m a wedding portrait branding photographer, based in the Houston Texas area. And I am also photography educator. I have a podcast that wisdom in the tangents podcast, which you were on recently. We had a fun conversation there. And yeah, I just I really have a desire for for just empowering people through photography by empowering them to see themselves I recently did this is a tangent already. But But I recently did some headshots for a corporate event and the amount of people who came up and just like there was this one lady in particular who just like grabbed my arm. And she was like, I have never liked a photo of myself before. And I love this photo, you actually captured like my real smile. And I was like, oh, that’s that’s thing. That’s what I’m here for. This is what, like drives me.
Sandra Henderson 3:19
Oh, that’s awesome. And tangents are always welcomed here. If you like are having a conversation with me for an hour, and we can like stick on one topic for an hour, that’s a miracle. That’s pretty much unheard of. So yeah, love, love a good tangent. But today we’re gonna be diving into talking about photographers wanting to break into a new market. And so I thought we would start at just like the very, very basics very beginning and say, just I wanted to ask you, what does it actually mean to break into a new market?
John Mansfield 3:50
Yeah, I mean, that can mean a lot of different things. Kind of like to boil it down to one major thing, it’s, it’s when you’re when you have a major difference between the target clients that you’re currently serving, and your desired target client of the next market, whether that’s geographically if you’re moving, or you just want to be like, you know, I live in the middle of nowhere, I just want to fly out to you know, like California or bamboo or something have fun of just like, I’m going to make this a new market and you want to start talking to them and marketing to new geographical area or if you’re moving up from you know, like the the budget couples to kind of that mid range area to the high end area to luxury and moving into a different market in that way too. Or just changing photography genres completely. So it’s all whenever there’s a major difference between who you’re currently speaking to through your marketing and branding to who you You’re wanting to connect with.
Sandra Henderson 5:01
I love that that’s such a good way of explaining it and breaking it down and a plus for the Canadian named drop there when he brought up bass, I appreciate it.
John Mansfield 5:09
I feel like that’s like a very generic like, every every American knows bam. And I was like, Okay, I’m just gonna go with that one.
Sandra Henderson 5:17
That works. It works. I love it. Um, so do you think that photographers ever approach any milestones in their career where this is like, where you would say, if you’ve hit this point, it’s time to consider breaking into a new market? Or do you think that it’s something that’s kind of just like personal preference, and however you’re feeling?
John Mansfield 5:36
Yeah, I think a lot of it is personal preference. I know that there are some photographers that, you know, they’ve been photographing for, you know, 510 years, but they’re still serving the same clients that they served in their first couple of years. But I think some of the major milestones that really kind of, maybe awaken us to thinking of branching into a new market are like elevating your skill set. You know, whenever you have photographed 10 weddings or 10, photoshoots, you have a specific skill set that you’re you’re growing in. And that’s going to be very different than 150 Weddings down the road. And the target client that you have at that, you know, the first year or two of your business is going to be most likely different than in year 10. So yeah, that kind of like once you’re hitting those milestones of like, Oh, I remember whenever I hit 25 weddings, and I was just like, This is crazy. I’m a professional photographer now. And, and now I’m, like, nearing 300. And I’m like that, like I do more than 25 in a year now. And that took like three years to get to 25
Sandra Henderson 6:54
so amazing that you’re getting close to 300 weddings, congrats on that.
John Mansfield 6:58
Thank you, it is a lot. My body is feeling the 300 weddings, I’m like, I need to I need to scale this down a little bit. But yeah, like your your skill set, that’s a milestone. And also like elevating your clients experience. Because that’s, that’s a different market, whenever you’re talking to like the I’m just hiring you to show up and take pictures kind of couple, versus the more guided experience of providing value and guides and articles meeting with them about timelines, and really being more involved. I remember my first few weddings where I didn’t, I didn’t know what they look like, I would show up and be like, okay, so you’re wearing white, are you the bride? And and that’s just like, I cringe about that. No, like, That is so weird. But yeah, that and, and I would I would show up without a timeline. And I would just know, this is the time of the ceremony. And this is the time that they told me to show up. And that was it. And and that’s just that stresses me out. Just thinking about that now. So yeah, yeah, those are, those are some different milestones of kinda like changing your, the way that you do your business and the way that you serve your clients.
Sandra Henderson 8:24
One thing that I thought of, as you were talking about that is like how it applies to my business. And for me, kind of, I don’t know if I would consider it a milestone, but kind of a point that I hit in my own business was just kind of feeling creatively unfulfilled. And hopefully, none of my clients listen to this, because they’re all amazing. I love all their weddings, and they absolutely mean no like shade or judgment to them at all. But we have a huge market for barn weddings in my area. And all too. Yeah, it’s brutal and like I want more than to get out of doing barn weddings. And I really I can’t fully get out of it. It’s just like I have to embrace it to a certain extent. But I needed to just kind of shift myself into a new market where I was booking higher end barn weddings, because like if I had another wooden frame from the dollar store painted and drawn on with like, just scribbled with a table number. And like plastic dinosaurs on the table that I was going to lose my mind creatively. So that was something that I encountered in my own business where I was like, Okay, it’s time for a shift here.
John Mansfield 9:33
That’s funny that you said the plastic dinosaurs because I recently had a say recently, it was probably two years ago now. But it was a much more high end wedding. It was at a very nice hotel in downtown Houston and they had ceramic dinosaurs on their centerpieces. So like things don’t really change all that much. But it’s the it’s the feel, and it’s the aesthetics. But yeah, I feel you with those barn weddings, we have so many barn venues out here. And, and there are some that are like the the lower budget. And you know, literally hay on the floor, kind of barn wedding. And then there are others. There’s one. It’s like 16,000 square feet. And it’s gigantic with, you know, two storey crystal chandeliers coming down from the middle. And it looks like a barn from the outside. But the inside is very elegant. And I’m like, I’m going to market more toward that one with the giant chandeliers than I am this one that I you know, may step in something that I don’t want to track through the venue, the other weddings? So yeah, I think that’s a good point of kind of assessing where you are and and who you’ve been serving. And do you want to keep serving those people if you’re continuing to get those leads for barn weddings, or continuing to get the leads for, for even, you know, like ballroom weddings, if you’re not a ballroom type person, if you’re wanting to do more of elopements and travel and adventure, but you’re continuing to get those leads for traditional weddings, then, then yeah, assessing that and seeing how you can change the way that you’re speaking to your target clients to attract more of the elopement style or whatever you’re going for.
Sandra Henderson 11:31
Yeah, the way that you’re speaking to them, that’s such a good point to bring up. And also, we hear a lot in the photography industry that you need to show what you want to book. So do you have any advice for someone that’s wanting to break into the new market, but doesn’t necessarily have like any photos that will cater to that in their portfolio?
John Mansfield 11:50
Oh, yeah, I know, some people don’t love styled shoots. And that’s okay. But styled shoots are great. Because it is a really great way one to build vendor relationships, because you can reach out to like some I did one with this amazing florist. And had really just asked for a couple of bouquets, maybe a little bit of something to put on the wall, just to make it look really nice. And she went above and beyond like probably spent $1,000 of her own money on this crazy floral arch. And that really moved it from more of a just this is we’re just getting together as vendors and doing this styled shoot to this is a luxury styled shoot now. And this is something that my regular clients that hire me aren’t doing. So that’s something that you can do is reaching out to vendors. And it may cost a little bit of money, especially for florists because they’re spinning their money to buy these flowers that they’re most likely not going to reuse. But, but yeah, setting up styled shoots. Also talking to your current clients about what they have dreams of, because maybe they don’t have a budget to get. I don’t know if you’ll have these up there. But we have, like beer borrows little donkeys that hold cases or like little satchels of beer and they just walk around. It’s really cool. I’ve only had that at a few weddings, but like that is that more high end, you’re not going to see that at least not the way that these donkeys are dressed up at, you know, a lower budget wedding. But if you’re talking to one of your couples, and they’re just like, oh, we really want to do these bureaus, or we really wanted to get such and such florist but it’s just out of our budget, even just working with them or talking to the bureau people and saying, hey, they’re really interested in hiring you could we make a deal where I pay you like half or something, and then we’ll do a photo shoot together, you get all these photos or I’ll do something special for you and, and elevating that client experience for your clients to where they’re getting something new. That is kind of elevating them more to that next level that high in that luxury look. And then you have that for your portfolio and they have an amazing time at their wedding and they’re like, my photographer got us beer burrows. This is insane. But yeah-
Sandra Henderson 14:33
That’s such a great suggestion. Like we hear about style sessions a lot is a great way to do a lot of things but that’s something like totally unique that I’ve never heard someone suggest before it’s like, you know, either cutting a deal with the vendor or maybe putting up a little bit out of pocket if that’s something that you have the ability to do with your budget. That’s such a great idea and a great way to bid not just build a relationship with the vendors but just like show up for your couples and go above and beyond.
John Mansfield 14:59
Yes, and I I’d love to take credit for that idea. But I heard that from my friend Tyler Spire, who’s a luxury wedding coordinator out in Santa Barbara, California and just like doing six and seven figure weddings. And he does that with his clients, where, which being a planner, it’s you have that conversation a little bit more to where, you know, like, oh, they really wanted peonies flowers, but they can’t afford that. And then you can split the difference, by kind of taking that money that you might spend doing a styled shoot, and then spending it on your clients and, and elevating that for them elevating the portfolio for you.
Sandra Henderson 15:40
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Sandra Henderson 16:34
That’s so good. I love that so much. Now my next question for you really kind of only applies to someone who is looking to break into a market that is different from the one that they’re already in, in the respect of like, if they’re a wedding photographer, and they want to start offering family sessions or something along those lines, a family photographer who wants to start breaking into the newborns, side of the industry. We hear a lot about people talking about the importance of niching down and I would love to hear your thoughts on how that kind of impacts what we’re doing in our business. If we do want to move into a different market. Do you think that it hinders wedding photographers to be branching out into something completely unrelated?
John Mansfield 17:19
I don’t think that it has to hinder them. I think that a lot of times it does. But a lot of times that is because you’re taking what you’ve learned and how to market to your current clients, whether it be you know, wedding clients, and you’re taking that into newborns, and you’re speaking to these parents, as you would speak to engaged couples. And the point, it’s yeah, it’s just not hitting the same way. And you might get a few leads, but you’re really not connecting with them, and the way that you need to. So really learning about your target client is especially when you’re switching complete genres like that, because weddings and newborns, very different. I have tried my hand at newborns, not for me.
Sandra Henderson 18:14
So when I was first starting out, I was like, I’m totally gonna be a newborn photographer. I brought by all the props and did all the things and then I just Yeah, we don’t do newborn photos over here anymore.
John Mansfield 18:25
No, no. And the my newborn photographer friends, like they are the best they love it. It is it’s their pride and joy they have all of the things I’ve seen a warehouse is full of just props and setups, and like warming beanbag chair, things to prop the baby on and like, Okay, y’all, this is for you.
Sandra Henderson 18:50
We’ll send them to the people who like that’s their specialty,
John Mansfield 18:53
right? Yeah. And occasionally I’ll get past clients that, you know, photograph their wedding two or three years ago, and they’re like, Hey, we’re expecting a baby. You know, can we hire you, we want you to do our photos. I’m like, I would love to do your family photos. That’s something that I like to do. However, I am not good at newborns. But my friend Michelle, she’s amazing. And she’s right here in town. So yeah, sending them and that, you know, builds those, those referral relationships as well, because she doesn’t do weddings, and she can send weddings my way.
Sandra Henderson 19:25
Exactly, you shouldn’t have newborn photographers doing weddings and vice versa. And like, I think there’s a whole conversation that’s for a totally different podcast, but there’s a lot of safety issues when you’re working with newborns. And so that’s one thing that always like I just can’t shake from the back of my mind. You’re a parent so you totally understand this. But having someone who has absolutely no experience just winging it and sticking a baby in a bucket, there’s a lot of issues with that. So I definitely I am an I’d have training and experience but not enough experience that I want to put anybody in that position especially this adorable newborn little babies Though I want to send those clients over to someone who is experienced and trained in those safety procedures,
John Mansfield 20:06
yes, I think like, everyone saw that Anne Geddies photos of like the baby and the watermelon. They’re like, I want to do that. And then they see all these beautiful photoshopped pictures on Pinterest, because a lot of times you do like to get the baby with the both hands holding up the chin. They can’t do that at two weeks. So you’re having to do one side and then the other and Photoshop and blend those together, stack images, all that, that a photographer, not a newborn photographer coming into that space, myself included, I tried to do that the baby’s head just like, fell to the side. I was like, yeah, we’re just gonna move on. We’re not gonna do this. But yeah, there’s a safety issue for sure. So if you’re thinking about doing that reach out to some newborn photographers in in get trained?
Sandra Henderson 20:56
Yeah. Second, that advice, For sure.
John Mansfield 20:58
Yeah, yeah. But overall, I would say if you’re moving to a completely different genre, a completely different market of clients, you want to learn who that that new client is going to be, instead of speaking to them the way that you have spoken to your past clients, they may not connect as well, with with the way that you’re speaking. So definitely learn them and learn how to speak to them now.
Sandra Henderson 21:25
That’s so true. Such a great point. And that perfectly leads into my next question for you is what are some do’s or don’ts that wedding photographers should keep in mind as they’re breaking into a new market, whether that be a market that’s totally different, or one in the same? Like within the wedding industry, they’re looking to, you know, reach destinations or a higher price point or anything like that? What are some do’s and don’ts?
John Mansfield 21:46
Well, first Don’t, don’t, don’t talk to them, like you talk to your your previous clients. Unless that still matches, you know, most of the time moving to a new market, it’s not going to match even moving from like, like more of a budget or mid range coupled to a high end and luxury couple, you’re going to speak to them differently. Because a lot of times with like the, the, the lower in the budget couples, you’re like, alright, if you anyone who books, eight plus hours, you get a free album. And it’s like those kind of like almost Walmart or you know, some sort of like superstore type deal of buy this and get this free, or I want to know everything, you’re constantly running discounts. And in the luxury market, it’s much more about the experience that they’re going to have and the connection that you have together. So-
Sandra Henderson 22:41
At a certain point, people, when you’re like trying to reach the luxury market, people will look negatively on a lot of sales and a lot of discounts and things being thrown in for free. They’re like, Okay, well, what’s wrong with it? Why is this happening? So that’s totally an important point to bring up for sure.
John Mansfield 22:57
Yeah, how can I trust you? If, if you’re constantly offering discounts, like how do I know that I’m getting a good, a good experience. So that’s one Don’t, don’t do that. Do network with, with vendors with other photographers, network with your potential clients in different client group, you know, Facebook groups, and, and all that kind of thing, local meetups and stuff like that. But a quick note on that, don’t go in there trying to sell yourself in these groups, it’s really easy way to get booted out of them, and not invited back. But go in and provide value. And it may take a while for them to really see you and see the value that you give. But if you’re going in and you’re providing value, and you’re helping, like in a lot of these couples, Facebook groups where they’re looking for vendors, instead of just coming in and be like, Hey, I’m a photographer, this is my prices hire me. It’s like, oh, you’re also looking for a DJ, here’s three DJs that I love working with and they they crowd work really really well. And also I’m a photographer, here’s my here’s my stuff. But yeah, that’s a do a don’t is don’t start off on level one. So what that means is like if you’re if you’ve been a let’s say you’re you’ve been a wedding or family photographer for five years and you have that experience behind the camera, you know your your camera like the back of your hand, you know all of that you know how to work with people, but you’re wanting to get into wedding photography. Don’t start off at level one wedding photography because you still have all that experience with your camera with working with people. So you you have that experience to start off a few levels higher. So you don’t have to go and be like okay, well I will. This is my first wedding. So I guess I need to try charge like $500 you actually have that experience, maybe not in a wedding setting, but you have experience working with people and working with your camera that you don’t have to start off as a fresh person who just bought a camera three weeks ago.
Sandra Henderson 25:14
Oh, that is such a good point. I love that.
John Mansfield 25:17
Yeah. Yeah, there’s a lot of experience that you can move over from your previous market to whichever market you’re going to. Yeah, absolutely.
Sandra Henderson 25:26
That was so helpful. Thank you for all of those. I hope everybody that was listening was taking notes. And if you’re not, that’s the great thing about podcasts is you can just go back and you can listen to it. Because those were some amazing takeaways. And then speaking of takeaways, if there is one key thing that you hope that everyone who is listening could like take and apply to their business, if they’re considering breaking into a new market right after they’re done listening to this episode. What would that one thing be?
John Mansfield 25:54
Yes. Okay. No, you asked for one thing. I have a couple of things, but they’re quite like set multiple, okay. Also, I love all your segues. In this episode, we’re just like, speaking of takeaways, what’s the takeaway? Like I love it. I’m like, I’m constantly just like segwaying in real life all the time. But Okay, so first takeaway, I would say, assess where you are. Look at what you’re doing. Are you happy with your business? Are you happy with the clients that you have? Are you constantly working with bride and groom’s villas and mother in law’s villas, and just like, Okay, I don’t know, if weddings are, for me, this is high stress, high stakes, I want to go with something more like newborns where I can have a four hour session. And as long as we get like, 15, great photos, that’s probably although they’re going to print. And like where it’s less stressful. At least I think it is, I don’t know. But like, assess where you are, and, and really see if this is where you want to keep going. Because a lot of times I feel like we get kind of stuck into, well, this is what I’m doing. So I’m gonna keep doing this, I am a wedding photographer. So I’m going to keep being a wedding photographer. Even though branding photography looks interesting. I’m just gonna keep doing this, because this is what I’ve been doing. And this is who I am, this is what people know me as. So as just take a look at where you are and what you’re doing. And if you want to keep doing that, or if you want to branch out and start doing some stuff on the side. And then second, if you do decide to move to a new market, I know I’ve kind of talked about this a few different times. But it’s really important how you speak to your target client. So learn who your target client is going to be in this new market, learn their desires, learn their pain points, speak to those desires and pain points in a way that will draw them in to wanting to work with you. Even if you’re new to the market, even if you’ve hardly done any weddings, and you’re wanting to get into wedding photography, but you’re able to speak to them about their desires of wanting these moments captured to where, you know, they’re, it’s, it’s one time that is probably going to be the only time that both of their families are there and all of their friend groups and childhood friends in college friends and co workers and like everyone is melting together. And you’re getting these moments of everyone meeting each other and having fun. And that kind of stuff, which is going to be so valuable for them for a lifetime. Learning how to speak to those desires and learning how to speak to the pain points of Well, I’m not a model, and I don’t know what to do with my hands and how do I pose myself and showing them that you know, how to pose them. And that’s going to that’s going to kind of tamper down the stress and the anxiety of hiring a photographer and getting in front of a camera, if you can speak to their pain points. So really, if you’re moving into a new market, learn who your new target client is and speak to their desires and their pain points. I know those were I said there wasn’t going to be quick and then I just went on for both.
Sandra Henderson 29:19
Okay, we are we are very similar in that way. So I loved it that was also good. And I was thinking as well like speaking to their pain points. It’s such a great way to help them feel seen. And it’s going to just level up that client experience as well as pushing you into that new market that you’re wanting to get into. So it’s just it’s one of those like, kind of like foundational things that are so important to do in your business regardless of if you’re just starting out if you’ve been doing this for 10 years, like I just redid all of my ICA A’s and like my core values, my mission statement everything over Christmas holidays. That’s what I did during my time off
John Mansfield 29:58
workaholic entrepreneurs just like we’re, oh, I have time off. Cool. I can work on this.
Sandra Henderson 30:05
Right? I just like did it on my couch while I was watching a movie. And so I just felt like I was still taking time. But yeah, just setting that foundation, it’s going to give you so much clarity in the direction that you’re heading with your marketing, whether that be in the market that you’re already working in, or branching out into a new one. Like there’s so many benefits to figuring out your why who your ideal clients are and who it is that you’re speaking to.
John Mansfield 30:29
Yes, yes. Yeah. And even if it is that you look at that, and you’re like, No, I’m good. Like, I’m speaking to them exactly how I need to I my target clients are exactly who I want to be working with. I love all of my, my clients and these leads that are coming in. I’m at a good place. Like that assessment could take five minutes, and then you just be like, Alright, cool. I’m good. Like, we’ll, we’ll go another year, and then we can assess again. Yeah, absolutely.
Sandra Henderson 30:57
Well, this has been amazing. Thank you so much for all of this that you’ve brought to the table today. But before we wrap things up, if you could just let everybody know where to find you on social media, so they can go and give you a follow.
John Mansfield 31:09
Sure. Yeah, I have. I loved this, Sandra, this has been so much fun. Thank you for having me on. You can find me on Instagram and TikTok I’m at @allheartphoto on both of those. And you can check out my podcast, it’s Wisdom In The Tangents. I don’t know off the top of my head what, what episode number yours was Sandra, but just scroll back a little bit. It was a couple months ago. And yeah, that’s that’s mainly where I hang out is Instagram and TikTok. I probably do too much consuming on TikTok than actually creating stuff. But it’s more of a fun account anyway.
Sandra Henderson 31:47
Yeah, that’s what I like my approach with my TikTok as well, though I am not I’m not a consumer. And so it was really hard for me to get on to the platform, just because I was like, I can spend about two minutes on tick tock before I’m like tired of having to scroll like, if those videos autoplay, they’d have me forever, but like, having to, like swipe through, it loses me really quickly. But I use my profile. That’s the word I was looking for my profile just for fun as well. Like I have no strategy behind it. I’m trying to like start doing things more like native to the TikTok platform. But for right now, I’ve literally just been like, I saved my Instagram real after I’m done. And then I posted on our on TikTok.
John Mansfield 32:32
Yep, yeah, I’m about the same. Like I have no strategy, like half of mine are just playing with weird filters. And then the other half are me actually giving advice for photographers and creatives. And like, this is not cohesive, but it’s me. So
Sandra Henderson 32:51
exactly. I actually, I did my very first, like lip thinking audio reels after I wrapped up the podcast with you. I was like, I already had my hair and makeup done and everything. So I was like, You know what, this is a perfect time. Yeah, so yeah, it’s been a couple hours doing that, and batch recorded a bunch of them. I’ve only posted one. But that’s the great thing about that drafts folder. It’d be like the day that I don’t feel like doing anything. I’ll just throw one of those on there.
John Mansfield 33:18
That is the best thing that you can just batch, you know, five or six of those. And then you don’t have to think about it for a while. Like oh, yeah, I should probably post a reel. I already have one. Let me just throw a caption on there.
Sandra Henderson 33:30
Yeah, it’s perfect. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. Again, it was great chatting with you. And I will definitely be sure to include the links to your social media, your Tiktok, your podcast and everything in the show notes so that everybody can come and check it out.
John Mansfield 33:43
Awesome. Sandra, thank you so much for having me on the show. Oh, you’re so welcome.
Sandra Henderson 33:48
Thank you so much for listening. You can find full show notes from today’s episode at simplysandrayvonne.ca/keepingitcandid. In the meantime, let’s connect. You can find me on Instagram and TikTok just search @simplysandrayvonne. And if you’re loving this podcast, I’d be so honoured if you’d go ahead and hit that subscribe button and leave a review. Until next time!
About John
Sandra Henderson 0:00
As wedding photographers, I know it’s no secret to you that a huge part of what we do is create content. Whether you’re posting on Facebook or showing up in your Instagram Stories, creating videos for Tik Tok writing on your blog, the list is endless and it can get really overwhelming really quickly. If you’ve ever thought where do I find the time to do it all friend know that you are not alone. I have been there myself. And that’s why I knew that I had to get my friend Amanda Warfield on the podcast for an interview!
Sandra Henderson 0:31
Amanda is a simplicity-focused content marketing strategist and the host of Chasing Simple, a podcast to help creative entrepreneurs uncomplicate their life and their business. As the past teacher she treated in her classroom lesson plans for speaking to creative entrepreneurs on sustainably fitting content marketing into their business without it taking over their business. Now she’s a two-time business owner and she spends her time helping clients create content marketing strategies, and teaching her students to batch their content so they can have time to move the needle in their business and find work-life balance. If her nose isn’t in a book, you can find Amanda annoying her husband by slipping Disney into every conversation or forcing her cats to snuggle. And so you can see why she and I get along so well!
Sandra Henderson 1:18
During our interview, Amanda and I dove into the differences between content strategy and content planning, and how you can utilize each to get the most of the work you’re putting into your marketing. If you want to stop feeling like you’re wasting time when it comes to creating content. This is a must hear interview and I know that you’re gonna get so much out of it. You’re listening to Episode 29 of Keeping It Candid.
Sandra Henderson 1:41
Welcome to Keeping It Candid. I’m your host, Sandra Henderson, an international wedding and family photographer and business coach. I help wedding photographers use systems to build out the back end of their businesses to gain control and continue to thrive no matter what life throws their way. And on a more personal note, I’m a strong Enneagram three wing two who is obsessed with tacos, and my love for travelling combined with navigating chronic illness life are just two of the many things that drive my passion for all things systems, workflows, and beating burnout as a business owner. Join me every week for a candid behind-the-scenes look at what it’s really like working as a wedding photographer, where I’ll give you actionable steps to take your business to the next level. Absolutely no fluff here, friends. So go grab your favorite notebook and pen and let’s dive into this week’s episode.
Sandra Henderson 2:29
I’m so excited to have you here, Amanda, thank you so much for joining me! I cannot wait to dive into everything that we have planned for today. But before we do that, I would love to just hand things over to you and give you a chance to introduce yourself and let everybody know a little bit about what you do.
Amanda Warfield 2:44
Well, first, thank you so much for having me. I’ve been really looking forward to this conversation since we started talking about doing this question back in December maybe?! So I’m super pumped just to be here today and to get to chat all things content plans and strategy with you. But for those that haven’t met me yet, I’m Amanda Warfield. I’m a simplicity-focused content marketing and launch strategist. And I help creative entrepreneurs, simplify their marketing, so that they can fit their marketing into their business without it taking over their business because we want to run sustainable businesses. And I know, this is something that you and I have talked about a lot, just the idea of like, our health changes from day to day, and we don’t always have the capacity that we would love to have, maybe and I think a lot of entrepreneurs, the more I get into the entrepreneurial space, I think most entrepreneurs are neurotypical, or they have some kind of chronic illness or whatever the case may be. A lot of us choose this path because we don’t have that sustainable energy, where we just have peak energy all the time. And so I really am passionate about making sure that entrepreneurs can continue to market their business without it overwhelming them, so that it’s sustainable, and their business can continue to run for them.
Sandra Henderson 3:59
I love that so much. And I love what you said about making it simplicity-focused. I think if we took that perspective and approach to more things in our lives, that would make things so much easier.
Speaker 2 4:10
Yeah, absolutely. And most of my clients, most of my students are solopreneurs. And in an ideal world, we could all work to best practices, right, but it’s just not realistic or possible as a solopreneur. I have some clients that have mega teams, and they’re like, you know, they’re making seven figures in revenue in the year. And that’s great. And they have tons and tons of team members. And I look at the content that they’re putting out. And it’s great. But it’s so much and the idea that solopreneurs are trying to live up to that just makes my heart hurt because it’s just not realistic. These people have teams of eight 920 people, right? It’s not possible for one single person to put out as much content as a team of 10 to 15 to 20.
Sandra Henderson 4:58
Yeah, that is so so true, which is kind of the perfect lead into the topic that we’re going to be chatting about today. Speaking of content, we talked a little bit before jumping on about the difference between a content plan and a content strategy. And I think, before we get into anything else, it’s super important to clarify what these two are and what the difference is. So since you’re the content expert, I’m going to hand that over to you and let you tell the listeners a little bit more about that.
Amanda Warfield 5:27
Yeah, absolutely. So a lot of times content planning and content strategy can be used as synonyms of each other, but they’re actually not in they’re very, very different. A content plan is just one tiny piece of a content strategy. So the plan itself is simply saying, I’m going to post about this thing to this platform on this day in time, the the mapping out of what you’re going to say and when and where that’s the plan. But in order to create that plan, and to come up with those topics, you have to craft a strategy that’s based on so much more than just where am I posting? And when?
Sandra Henderson 6:08
Oh, yes, that is so so true. And I can see even in my own business, how those lines get a little bit blurred as I’m going through every month, like figuring out what I want to say, on the different platforms and things like that. I’ve totally been guilty of blurring the lines between the two for sure.
Amanda Warfield 6:24
And they are I mean, they are a bit blurry, because the plan is part of a strategy. If you’re gonna have a strategy, you need to have a plan. But you can have a plan without a strategy. And that’s what we don’t want. We want to make sure that you’re crafting a strategy, and then you’re taking that strategy and implementing it into your plan.
Sandra Henderson 6:43
Oh, yeah, absolutely. That’s so so true. So where does someone even begin when they’re starting to map out their content strategy?
Amanda Warfield 6:51
The very first thing that you’ve got to look at is your goals. You want to make sure- because here’s the thing, marketing for the sake of marketing is fine, when that’s all the capacity that you have. So hear me say that! If you’re like, I am just doing the best I can to like keep things moving right now. If that’s all you have the capacity for, throw that spaghetti at the wall with your marketing, see what sticks. I’m all for it. We want to keep it simple. But once you’re ready to move past that, you want to ensure that your content is actually moving the needle in your business that is actually getting you leads that it’s actually making you money, because if it’s not, is it doing a whole lot for your business, is it worth the time that you’re spending on it? Right? So we want to make sure that our content is connected to our business goals in order to move the needle on those goals? And the way that you do that? Is you hone in again, what are those goals? What’s your yearly goal? What’s your quarterly goal? What is your monthly goal? And what is your weekly goal for your marketing and for your sales? Breaking it down into those different avenues? And again, that sounds so simple, but how do you expect to get to that goal revenue wise? And why? What are you selling? So let’s say that you, I’m going to try to do some really simple math because it’s going to be off the top of my head, and I am not a math major.
Sandra Henderson 8:11
Me neither, so it’s all good!
Amanda Warfield 8:13
Yeah, I don’t have that capacity. Okay, so let’s say that your, your goal is $20,000. Again, for simple math $20,000 in revenue for the year. And for Q1, because that’s when we’re recording this, your goal is $5000 of that $20,000. Okay, well, how do you plan to get to that $5000? Where’s that coming in? And this is where we stop a lot of times, a lot of times we say this is my revenue goal for the year, and I’m gonna split it between each quarter. But how are you getting there?
Sandra Henderson 8:41
Yeah, that was always something I really struggled on when I was first getting started with like setting financial goals and sales goals and things like that. It was like, I set that number, but then it was like, Cool. But now what?!
Amanda Warfield 8:51
Right? And that’s where the disconnect comes in. And that’s why our marketing doesn’t lead back. So what you want to do is you want to say, okay, in q1, my goal is 5000, what are my different streams of revenue that I’m actually going to be attempting to make money from. So a lot of times we have 10 courses and four things in our shop. And also we’ve got three different services. You can’t make money from every single revenue stream, each quarter, you have to really nail down and focus in on maybe three max, right? What can you actually move the needle on in this quarter? And so let’s say though, for the sake of simplicity, there are two things you’ve got a one to one service and you’ve got a course. And in q1, you’re going to try to make $5,000 between the two of them. Okay, well, how much and you’re going to want to look back at last year’s numbers for this have those pulled out, but how much did you make in each of those last year? How much did you make in each of those per quarter last year and use that number to roughly estimate how many sales you’ll get for q1? And some things you want to look at are okay well in q1 I didn’t have a ton of one to one happening for whatever reason. Maybe it’s too cold outside to do sessions. And we’re just it’s very low key I really pick up in q2. So maybe I’m just planning on having one session. That’s my goal is just one single full session for q1, whatever that number is, let’s say $2,000. For full session on average, I don’t know I’m literally making up numbers. I know nothing about photography, pricing, but let’s say $2,000. Okay, well, that means in order to hit that $5000, you have to hit $4000 with that course, if you sell the course for $200 each. Oh, I don’t, that math’s hard. Is it 20?
Sandra Henderson 10:43
I think so haha
Amanda Warfield 10:44
20 of your students, okay, I thought I was doing simple math. But let’s say it’s a $200 course. And you know, in q1, you’ve got to bring in 20 students. So you have to break down that big number. And it’s a guesstimate, it’s always a guesstimate, there’s no way to like 100% perfectly predict what you’re going to make, but use the numbers from last year. Use the patterns that you see in your business of your slow in your busy seasons for different revenue streams, and guesstimate what that number is going to look like and then figure out how you’re going to get there. So again, if you your number is $4000 for the course and you know, okay, well, I sell it at $200. How many students you need, you need 20. Okay, so that’s your focus for q1, you have to your sales goal for q1 is 20 course sales and one full session, knowing that you can then take that and go, okay, well, my marketing has to be geared towards the course, everything that I’m doing with my content, and my marketing, and q1 has to be geared towards the topic the course is on and leading people to the course, to the freebie that leads to the course, whatever your back-end systems look like.
Sandra Henderson 11:51
That makes so much sense! My wheels are turning like thinking about wedding photographers and how they can apply it even if they don’t offer courses and things like that, which we’re seeing photographers do more and more. But for anyone who doesn’t, like, you can easily just replace the word course with like albums or prints and start like incorporating product sales in that same way, using that same mentality that you would then want to focus your marketing strategy around selling those albums and prints and not necessarily around booking sessions or weddings.
Amanda Warfield 12:20
Right! Exactly, whatever your different revenue streams are, you’re going to try to figure out how do I make this happen? So if it’s albums and you know, okay, well, I need to sell X albums. And this is actually a great segue into conversions, which is a very long conversation, but we can kind of dive into it a little bit. So if you know that you, let’s say your average conversion rate from wedding clients to the number of clients. Basically, I worded that really weird. But if you know that 5% We’ll do 20%. Again, easy if 20% of your full session, your wedding clients buy an album and you want to sell four albums. That means that you need 20 clients because 20% of 20 is four. And so you can work backwards to know how many you need in order to sell the number of albums, upgrades, whatever, different packages that you need to sell. And this can also work if you know okay, well, I’m maxed out, I can only take on this many wedding clients a quarter. And currently 20% will actually upgrade to an album. But I don’t have time like or the ability to take on more wedding clients. Okay, well, how how can you increase that conversion rate? What can you do to focus on bringing that number up instead of trying to bring in more people?
Sandra Henderson 13:47
Yeah, absolutely. You’re speaking right to my soul with that, because that’s definitely where I’m at in my business right now is not having the capacity to take on more weddings, but still needing to grow my bottom line. It’s more expensive to live and I have lots of big goals, and so I need to focus on print sales and things like that to bring that bottom line up. So yeah, that definitely directly applies to me. And my favorite thing about hosting this podcast is when I get to edit, edit it, I get to like go back and re-listen and like take all of my own notes. So that’s like a fun little highlight!
Amanda Warfield 14:18
That’s the best part of hosting a podcast is I just choose people that I want to learn from, right. And then I get to ask them all the questions I want to ask and then we audience benefits.
Sandra Henderson 14:27
It’s so true. I love it. So what do you think makes for a successful content strategy?
Amanda Warfield 14:34
I think at a bare bones level, it’s making sure that you know what your goals are, and that you’re connecting back to them, like we just talked about, if you are not connecting your content with your goals, or if you don’t even have a goal in mind with your content because again, maybe you’re like I don’t have the capacity to sit down and do the whole strategy thing by myself. I just like putting content out as all I can handle right now. Well, your goal is getting content out and making sure that your business is being seen your goal is consistency, right. So if that’s the case, your goal is consistency. But having some sort of goal in mind, whether it is simply being consistent, or it’s, I want to make sure that my content is moving the needle in my business, having that goal in mind, because if you have no goal, the content is just spaghetti at the wall. It’s literally just, I’m putting stuff out here. And frankly, it’s a waste of time if you don’t have some sort of overarching goal in mind, because if you’re not leading them anywhere, or your goal isn’t to just see growth, well, what are you doing and why
Sandra Henderson 15:37
I used to be the queen of the like, set it and forget it, post it once and put it into the world. And then that was that and like, I just made the assumption that everybody was gonna see it, everybody was going to know it existed because they set it the one time and that was good enough. And, oh, I’ve learned many things.
Amanda Warfield 15:56
Yeah, we have to really be broken records with our content. And I know that so many people hate that. They don’t they, they feel like they’re bothering their audience. But your audience is such a small portion of what you actually put out there, especially on social media that if you’re not saying it over and over and over and over again, you’re actually doing them a disservice. Because then they don’t get that education. They don’t get that information from you.
Sandra Henderson 16:21
We’re gearing up for wedding season over here and I wanted to quickly interrupt this incredible interview to tell you about my wedding day questionnaire template. I send this questionnaire to my clients three months before their wedding day to collect details about things like their ceremony, what time dinner is going to be served at which family members they want to take photos with, and also to educate them on things like how long different sections of photos typically take and the benefit of doing a first look. Using a questionnaire like this is such a great way to avoid unnecessary headaches on the day of because you’ll have all the details that you need to keep serving your couple no matter what comes your way. Because let’s be real, we all know that anything can happen on a wedding day, but it becomes a hell of a lot easier to roll with the punches when you’re thoroughly prepared. The wedding day questionnaire template includes nine pages of questions broken down into each section of the day, day of contact information getting ready first look ceremony, family formals wedding party photos, newlywed portraits, the reception, additional details and vendor info. The questions within each section cover every bit of information you could possibly need to make sure that you have a successful wedding day and create a photography timeline with ease. You’ll walk into every wedding with a new sense of confidence because you know, all of your bases are covered to keep things stress free no matter what. And the best part. It’s only $17! Yes, friends, just $17! Head over to simplysandrayvonne.ca/resources to get your copy.
Take your client experience to new levels this year with the Wedding Day Questionnaire Template – CLICK HERE for all the details!
Sandra Henderson 17:58
Yeah, I was just actually talking to someone on another episode where they were talking about how you need to, if you want to have a business, you need to talk about your business or something like that. I’m totally like getting the paraphrasing wrong. But it made so much sense like we… We are the only ones who regularly get tired of talking about the same thing over and over again. But the majority of people are maybe only hearing once every five times that we talk about it. So it’s super important to have that in mind as you’re putting together that strategy too.
Amanda Warfield 18:28
Absolutely. And not only do they only hear about something maybe once every five times, but it takes seven to 10 times of hearing about something before someone will take action. So if they’re only hearing about it once every five times and they need to hear about it 10 times, that means you need to talk about it 50 times before one person is going to take action on it.
Sandra Henderson 18:49
Right? I hope everybody’s writing that down because it’s so so important. It’s something that I wish I had figured out much sooner in my business for sure. You actually have a planner to help people with their content, that content strategy, right?
Amanda Warfield 19:02
Yes, I do. And you know, it’s funny, because for years, people would ask me, Well, what do you use to plan your content? And I was like, I don’t know, I just print off a random calendar page online, like, I don’t have anything. And then this last year, I got to the new year. And I was like, You know what? I really wish there was something that yes, has the calendar page for me to create that plan. But I wish there was something that would really make me sit down and focus on the strategy side of things because I’m great at doing that for my clients. And of course, when we’re great at doing it for our clients, it’s the last thing we do for ourselves, right? And so my strategy was falling off and I was just throwing spaghetti at the wall essentially, which was fine, but I knew that if I had something that would walk me through step by step what I needed to do to craft that strategy for myself, I’d be more likely to do it until I actually created the planer for myself. And then you know, talked about it and other people were like I need that too. And so I started selling it in my shop
Sandra Henderson 20:00
Oh, that’s awesome. And I’ve seen everything that you’ve posted about it as you were building the new one for this year. And it looks so thorough, I have used a lot of content planners. And I mean, it goes with courses, it goes with things that you buy from shops, sometimes you get things that are very simple, and they’re promising a lot more than they’re delivering. Your planner is the exact opposite of that it definitely walks everybody right through the entire process. And I think that’s so valuable when it comes to just the way that photographers are spending their money. It’s very hard earned, we’re very protective of it, like most business owners, which I can totally support and respect in every way. So it’s nice to know that there are things out there that are delivering more than what they’re promising, and actually, like out there to help people.
Amanda Warfield 20:48
Oh, thank you. That’s very kind.
Check out the Chasing Simple Content Planner – click here!
Sandra Henderson 20:51
So speaking of I mean, we’ve been speaking of Content Strategy this whole time, but where is one area that you think is super important for wedding photographers to focus on in 2023 as they’re planning out their content marketing strategies?
Amanda Warfield 21:05
Do you mean as far as where they’re showing up? What topics are talking about? Where-
Sandra Henderson 21:10
let’s say where they’re showing up.
Amanda Warfield 21:13
Okay, so right now, the, the new giant in our industry in the online space is TikTok, right. If you’re looking for organic growth, meaning that you don’t want to pay to play, you don’t want to bother with Facebook ads, and all of that right now. Or if you are, you want to just be a small part of your strategy. If you want to see growth, you’ve got to be on TikTok. There are plenty of reasons that people don’t want to be on TikTok, and I get it. But that’s kind of the way things are at this moment in time. Instagram, and Facebook are great for nurturing a community that you already have. But we’re not seeing growth in either of those apps, for the most part, there are always going to be anomalies, right, there are always going to be people that have really found a way to make it work for them. But overall, for the most part, we’re not seeing growth on Facebook, or Instagram, it’s more so here’s a place a community that I’ve created already. And these are people that I have connections with, I want to invite people into this space, because this is a great way to nurture them. But it’s not growing things for me. So my suggestion, honestly, is to get on TikTok, grow, TikTok as much as you can get that organic reach. Be aware that people are really mean on TikTok, I really mean. So the whole, post controversial things, and you’ll see growth is still true. But be prepared that you’re gonna need thick skin if you’re going to use that strategy. But get on TikTok, grow that audience and then send that audience to your email list to your Instagram to your Facebook groups. So that you’re you’re getting that growth still, but you’re sending them to these other places where you can really nurture them, because that is something that I’m seeing on TikTok, the nurture aspect is not there so much. You know, they’ve tried implementing stories and they’re implementing the, the be real kind of, you know, where TikTok now is what it’s called and implementing these other things. But what it sees what I’m finding with myself and my clients is that TikTok, TikTok, Instagram stories are still a really great way to nurture your people. Facebook groups are a really great way to nurture people, email lists will never go away. It will always be a great way to nurture people. TikTok, not so much to an extent, but it gets harder and harder as more and more people get on there, but it’s a great way to see growth.
Sandra Henderson 23:46
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and paints a really good picture about the difference between specifically like Instagram reels versus TikTok because I know a lot of photographers were just like, do I have to get on TikTok? It’s not for me like XYZ reasons why they don’t want to be over there. And then Instagram Reels came out and they’re like, Okay, perfect. Now I can still show up on video but I’m just gonna stay on Instagram. So talking about how one is really like better suited for nurturing the following and the community that you already have versus one being better for growth. I think it’s a super important differentiation to make.
Amanda Warfield 24:22
Well, so TikTok, the biggest difference between Reels and TikTok is that TikTok really values authenticity a bit more than reels does reels that are more polished, tend to do better. Versus the like, I look like a bum but I’m getting on here to like share something I thought about does a lot better on TikTok. So TikTok is actually a lot easier to create content because you can look terrible and nobody cares. That’s not the point. They want to hear what you have to say and they want to hear the education that you’re going to share. But you The other thing to note with reels is how often and I with every social media platform, every tactic within a social media platform is looking at how you’re utilizing them. How often are you looking at reels versus stories versus the feed? Right? We all know the feed is dying. Instagram has said they’re going to prioritize pictures again more this year, we’ll see what happens with that. But the feed is dying. And my take on social media is that right now, they’re all trying to compete against each other and add these new, different tactics in. But what tends to work best is utilizing the parts of the platform that are I don’t want to say necessarily more native, but the ones that you see more people using, and that you’re interacting with yourself, because stories on Instagram aren’t native. But that does seem to be the one that most people are utilizing. Versus tiktoks People aren’t utilizing stories on tiktoks. Some are, but for the most part, they’re not. It’s more of a four year pay for you page, like, we want to scroll, I don’t even look at my friends tiktoks. Like if they come up with my for you page, great. But what I when you get on the app, the first thing that shows up top of your screen for you page, when you first get on Instagram, first thing at the top of your page is the stories. And so that’s going to naturally be what we go towards more, because it’s going to be the first thing that catches our attention. And so utilize if you only have so much capacity, which we all do utilize the things that are unique, and that are doing well on each individual platform.
Sandra Henderson 26:42
And you actually just started doing that over on your Instagram, I remember seeing in the last couple of weeks that you have decided to take the pressure off of yourself and stop focusing on posting, and doing things that are not getting any sort of return on your investment and focus on stories as well. So has that been going for you in the first little bit,
Amanda Warfield 26:58
It’s so much nicer, there’s just so much less to worry about. So for everyone listening, I have decided to move towards a semi-static grid, where basically I am hopefully every quarter, we’ll see. But every quarter, I’m creating just three images. And they can either be the cover for real or for carousel or whatever. But three images that I’m going to pinned to the top my Instagram feed. And if that’s the only content that I put on my feed that quarter, I am okay with that because my feed content is not moving the needle in my business. And I have tried strategy after strategy after strategy for months now. And I just decided, You know what, I’ve tried it. I’ve tried almost everything. And it’s not working, which means that the hours I’m spending each month working on Instagram feed posts, not worth my time. And so I’m just done doing it. And you know, I posted this week for Valentine’s Day, some of my husband, it was just like a spur of the moment, like, Oh, I feel like posting this. And I got all kinds of likes, but you know what, it’s not getting comments or anything like that, because people who are scrolling the feed there, it’s back to the pretty pictures. Oh, that’s a pretty picture. Oh, that’s a pretty picture brand photos, not getting a ton of love. Photos from my husband, like traveling get all kinds of likes. And so it’s almost like we’ve reverted back on the feed to Oh, I like this picture. I’m not going to read the caption, but I’m gonna like the picture. And so it’s just been so nice to just remove that pressure, and just show up on stories based on the strategy that I’ve created for stories and allow that to move the needle for me.
Sandra Henderson 28:33
Oh, yeah, I’m sure that’s been so nice. I’ve seen a few people doing it here and there. And it’s very, very tempting. It’s something that I’m going to be heavily considering in the future of where I’m taking both my photography and coaching businesses, that’s for sure.
Amanda Warfield 28:47
The beauty of it is there’s so many different ways that you can do it too. You know, I’ve seen some people who created a nine square grid, and that’s going to be there and tired. They’re not posting anything else. They deleted all of their old or archived all of their old fi posts, and they just have the nine square grid, and it’s got everything from contact information to services to about these freebies, all of it. There’s a different post for each one. And that way when you find their page, it’s like, Hey, this is everything you need. For me, you don’t need any of this other stuff. And they’ve archived it. I’ve seen people that are doing a quarterly six grid, I actually got the idea from Nicole Yang. And she’s doing a quarterly like magazine cover, which I think is so stinking cute and smart. And of course, she’s a brilliant graphic designer. So but she’s doing that’s all she’s posting is every month she’s doing a new magazine spread and they’re just stacking on top of each other. I went with the three because I wanted that ability to post if I felt inspired, so that way I could pin them at the top and anything else would stick underneath it. But for my other business, I’m going to do a six square per minute grid. And I’m just not I’m not going to do a quarterly one. You know at some point I’m sure information will change and I want to To change up my strategy, but for now, that’s just going to be that because that business I don’t it’s more of a side hustle, I don’t spend as much time on it. And so I’m not going to worry about, oh, I need to do this every quarter or I need to update this each month, it’s just, I’m gonna create at once, make it great. When my strategy changes, we’ll make a new one.
Sandra Henderson 30:16
Yeah, that’s so great, like kind of going full circle to what you were saying at the very beginning of the episode is that you need to like our energy is limited, our lives can be very unpredictable. And so it’s so important to focus the energy that we do have in areas that is actually paying off and worth our time to spend it on. Yeah,
Amanda Warfield 30:33
Exactly. And marketing is important. I wouldn’t have a job if I didn’t believe that, right. But it’s not the most important. It’s, it’s up there. You don’t want to completely stop your marketing, right? Or you will have no business but it can’t take up all your time. And so what can we do to simplify while still being strategic? And not spend all of our time so that we have those sustainable businesses?
Sandra Henderson 30:57
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I’m gonna just take one last question over to you if there is one thing that listeners that you hope that they walk away from, or one thing that they could implement, right, as soon as they finished listening to this episode, what would that one thing be?
Amanda Warfield 31:13
Oh man. You know, I always ask people this question on my podcast, and I never think about what I want to say when other people ask it to me. Um, I would say, if there’s only one thing that you walk away from this from, is the idea that you do not have to follow best practices. For any platform for any type of marketing, you don’t have to follow best practices, to see results and to run a really successful business.
Sandra Henderson 31:40
I love that so much. That’s one thing that I always think when I see educators and experts, or social media experts on Instagram, and they’re saying like, you should be posting X number of reels per day and this number of stories per day, and they’re not wrong, but that’s what you need to be doing if your job is to grow your Instagram following. But to get photography clients, you don’t have to be posting on Instagram 15 times a day, because they really do not translate to one another. And I think that that message gets lost a lot. So everybody, if you haven’t already written down that little takeaway that manda just said, it’s super important. Definitely go and set that mindset and apply that to your business as you’re going forward.
Amanda Warfield 32:23
Yeah, absolutely. Keep it as simple as possible. When and if you decide to add on a VA or other team members to your team, then you can worry about best practices for now. Keep it as simple as possible so that you can be consistent, not constant.
Sandra Henderson 32:38
Oh, love it. And I’m going to have a link to your content planner in the show notes so everybody can go and grab themselves a copy of that and make the content and marketing plan and strategy side of their business so much easier this year. And before we wrap things up, uh, where can everybody find you on social media and on Tik Tok?
Amanda Warfield 32:56
So for both Instagram and Tiktok my ad is @mrsamandawarfield. And I also have my own podcast called Chasing Simple that you should definitely check out.
Sandra Henderson 33:05
Yes, absolutely. You should definitely check that out. Amazing. Well, thank you so much again, Amanda. This was so so great. I love chatting with you. And we will definitely have to do it again soon!
Amanda Warfield 33:15
Thank you so much for having me.
Sandra Henderson 33:18
Thank you so much for listening. You can find full show notes from today’s episode at simplysandrayvonne.ca/keepingitcandid in the meantime, let’s connect. You can find me on Instagram and TikTok just search @simplysandrayvonne. And if you’re loving this podcast, I’d be so honored if you’d go ahead and hit that subscribe button and leave a review. Until next time!
About Amanda
Amanda is a simplicity-focused content marketing strategist, and host of Chasing Simple – a podcast to help creative entrepreneurs uncomplicate their life and biz.
She traded in her classroom lesson plans for speaking and educating creative entrepreneurs on sustainably fitting content marketing into their business without it taking over their business.
Now a two-time business owner, she spends her time helping 1:1 clients creating content marketing strategy and teaching her students to batch their content so that they have time to move the needle in their business and find work/life balance.
If her nose isn’t in a book, you can find Amanda annoying her husband by slipping Disney into every conversation, or forcing her cats to snuggle.
Sandra Henderson 0:00
Hey friends, and welcome back for another episode of the podcast!
Sandra Henderson 0:03
Before we dive into today’s episode, I wanted to take a quick second to give you a little bit of real talk:
Sandra Henderson 0:10
Your old way of doing things in your wedding photography business just doesn’t work anymore. Even if it’s gotten you this far things are changing in 2023. Standing out in a highly competitive wedding photography market these days take so much more than talent behind your camera. What’s gonna set you apart from your competition is delivering an incredible client experience going above and beyond so that your clients never have a single doubt about their decision to hire you.
Sandra Henderson 0:37
So you never say no, you start promising faster turnaround times you over-deliver quantities of photos, you send gifts, you give your clients 24/7 access to you and your text, emails and DMS.
Sandra Henderson 0:50
So what’s the problem? Well, it all takes mental and physical energy. And while it might be sustainable to do all the things when you have five or maybe even 10 clients, what about when you have 30 or more clients at one time? What happens if you’re sick or dealing with yet another chronic illness flare up? Because all my friends in the chronic illness club know that there is always another flare up!
Sandra Henderson 1:13
Or stick with me here on this one… What happens if you take a vacation? Yes, friend a vacation!
Sandra Henderson 1:20
All of a sudden you’re scrambling, right? You’re overwhelmed by all the things that you didn’t get done while you were taking time off. And you’re missing deadlines and feeling like you’re never gonna get caught up. You feel like you’re constantly apologizing to your clients, and you know that you’re not delivering the experience that you wanted to. And that’s when impostor syndrome always seems to find a way to creep in.
Sandra Henderson 1:42
You start thinking to yourself, everyone else seems to be able to do this, why can’t I?
Sandra Henderson 1:48
And that, friends, is exactly where I was in my business five years ago. It was the beginning of my chronic illness journey and I kept unexpectedly having to take time off. All of a sudden, every gallery I sent it was late. I would ignore my inbox for days, sometimes even weeks, because I just didn’t want to apologize to yet another client for dropping the ball. And I wasn’t taking care of myself in the slightest because I was living at my computer for 16 plus hours a day, I was skipping meals, and the only time I was taking off to rest was when my body forced me to.
Sandra Henderson 2:20
Does that resonate with anybody that’s listening? Raise your hand if that applies to you!
Sandra Henderson 2:25
Maybe you felt like you’re just not cut out to be a wedding photographer. Maybe you’ve tried implementing systems before, and it ended up just creating more work for you instead of taking some off your plate. After trying out so many different systems in my business, I almost gave up for those exact same reasons. Until one day it finally clicked.
Sandra Henderson 2:44
These systems weren’t working for me because I was just doing what everyone else was doing. As someone with a chronic illness, I have unique needs that I need to respect and set boundaries around in order for me and my business and my systems to work their best. So I tuned out all the noise. I used the basic foundations to building systems, and I found ways to simplify and streamline every aspect of my business behind the scenes. And that’s when everything changed.
Sandra Henderson 3:11
I stopped missing deadlines and I started getting rave reviews from clients again, I was delivering photos that I couldn’t be more proud of. But honestly, what was most surprising to me was that I was able to bring in more money while working significantly less.
Sandra Henderson 3:26
Four years ago, I was convinced that my time as a photographer had come to an end. But now I’m working a four-day workweek while running two different businesses. Imagine if your wedding photography business looked the same. Imagine beating every deadline and never having to apologize to your clients again. Imagine the freedom of taking time off no matter the reason without the stress and guilt that always seems to come along with it.
Sandra Henderson 3:53
Would eight weeks be worth it to make that happen? I see so many photographers going through the same struggles year after year. And so many of those same photographers tell me the exact same things. Things like “I don’t have systems in place because I just don’t need them,” or “I don’t even know where to start. It’s so overwhelming,” or “I’m already so busy. I do not have the time to learn anything new right now.”
Sandra Henderson 4:17
So when I started hearing all these things, that’s when I knew I needed to build a program that would help other wedding photographers get the same results that I’d had. And so that is why I’m so excited to be introducing Unfiltered + Simplified!
Sandra Henderson 4:30
A boot camp for wedding photographers who are ready to simplify the way they do things. You’ll learn how to fix five of the most common areas that every wedding photographer fall short: weekly planning workflows, client experience, post production and offboarding. You’ll be able to avoid past mistakes so that you and your business can continue to thrive. You’ll create simple, streamlined systems that work for your unique needs and no one else is you’ll boost your productivity no matter what life throws your way. And you’ll save time so that you can get back to doing the things that you love the most.
Sandra Henderson 5:05
Inside the boot camp, you’ll get eight weeks of live coaching calls, in-depth CRM, workflow reviews, co working sessions, weekly Voxer support, a Facebook community, replays and lifetime access to all upgrades to the program, the Simple System Mindmap, and so many bonuses like a questionnaire template bundle, an Asana weekly planner, email swipe files, and a one hour one on one coaching call with me!
Sandra Henderson 5:31
The total value of everything included is more than $8,500, but you can get it all in the beta round for just $697.
Sandra Henderson 5:41
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Sandra Henderson 5:52
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Sandra Henderson 6:11
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Sandra Henderson 6:31
Okay, now let’s get on to today’s topic! There’s a little bit of a shift happening in the wedding photography industry right now. For the longest time – like, I think probably the majority, if not the full extent of my career, there have been two primary styles that the majority of wedding photographers have fallen into. There’s either light and airy or dark and moody. But recently there’s been a third category that’s been making its way to the forefront and that is editorial.
Sandra Henderson 6:58
It’s almost documentary inspired and photographers are utilizing flash to create strong shadows that contributes to a uniquely artistic style that I for one absolutely love. My guest on the podcast today is Alora Rachelle and she does a much better job of explaining exactly what editorial is. Alora is a Detroit based editorial wedding photographer and marketing coach who believes that mindset marketing and sales are the key foundations to growing a profitable business. We chatted about her decision to shift her style of photography into a new category and how wedding photographers can really embrace imperfection to not just capture memories, but create beautiful works of art for their clients.
Sandra Henderson 7:38
You’re listening to Episode 28 of Keeping It Candid!
Sandra Henderson 7:42
Welcome to Keeping It Candid. I’m your host, Sandra Henderson, an international wedding and family photographer and business coach. I help wedding photographers use systems to build out the back end of their businesses to gain control and continue to thrive no matter what life throws their way. And on a more personal note, I’m a strong Enneagram three wing two who is obsessed with tacos, and my love for traveling combined with navigating chronic illness life are just two of the many things that drive my passion for all things systems, workflows, and beating burnout as a business owner. Join me every week for a candid behind the scenes look at what it’s really like working as a wedding photographer, where I’ll give you actionable steps to take your business to the next level. Absolutely no fluff here, friends. So go grab your favorite notebook and pen and let’s dive into this week’s episode.
Sandra Henderson 8:30
Hey, and thanks so much for joining me! I’m so excited to have you on the podcast today to talk about something that’s a little bit different than the business side of things. This is the first time that we have a more like a creative topic, and so thank you so much for joining me and for suggesting it! I’m super excited to dive in, but before we do, why don’t we have a quick little intro, if you want to let everybody know who you are and a little bit about your business?
Alora Rachelle 8:53
Yeah, so my name is Alora Rachelle. I am a wedding photographer based here in Detroit. And I’m not just a, I guess your average wedding photographer. I like to call myself more of like an editorial wedding photographer. I feel like it’s like a mixture of all the different styles meshed together probably besides dark and moody. But I’d love to just definitely dive into this today. I have been in the industry for almost 12 years, and it’s been a long time coming. It’s been super fun though. I’ve shot well over 200 weddings. I have two kids, like, I mean, where do you want me to start? Where do you want me to end? You know?
Sandra Henderson 9:31
I love that. Well, everybody, you are hearing from a seasoned pro today! I love that you have done over 200 weddings. That’s absolutely amazing. What a career milestone to hit.
Alora Rachelle 9:41
Yeah, it’s it. You know, it feels like it flies by because the wedding season at least here in the Midwest, like everything’s pretty steady, like during the spring and then like summer fall hits and everything is like a tornado. And we’re like, oh my gosh, should I shoot 40 Weddings this year? Oh my gosh, that’s insane. And so doing that for years years and years, I don’t know, I feel like I hit burnout really, really bad. And I had to look at my business model, look at my pricing model and be like, I’ve been the same for the past like four years. And so I took a long look at everything. And maybe this was like after COVID, too, because I feel like before COVID I was just going, going going, I was so busy that I did not realize that I wasn’t shooting the weddings that I liked. I wasn’t even doing the style that I liked. I was just kind of going along with whatever niche box I was supposed to fit in. I don’t know if anyone else can relate to this. But it’s like, Oh, if you shoot, you know, regular exposure overexposed the near light and airy photographer, right, and you just stay there like you shoot like them. You fit in like them, you pose like them. But like I never, I never fit into any of those. Like, I wanted to be dark and moody. But I wanted people to see like details. And I didn’t want things to be so dark that it was like grungy. And so for years, I was just like, going back and forth, going back and forth, tweaking my edit and just trying to figure out like, where I belonged, what my niche was. And then I noticed because I’m a trend watcher, and I’m always like, analyzing marketing and stuff that LA was adapting this like Hollywood editorial, like, harsh flash, but like just true to life images. It was clean, it was crisp, but the images were documentary. They were fun. They weren’t super stuffy. And Posey, because I’m not even that kind of person, when I was going to like higher on weddings, because I like positioned my portfolio for that. I didn’t even know how to act. I was like, ah, what should I say like, I’m not even super proper. I’m just like, very no nonsense and like down to earth and real. And I mean, I loved fashion, I loved higher end things. But also like I was just a very laid back individual. So anyway, it’s goes to show that like you can really brand yourself anywhere and like switch around and all these different niches. But for me, I feel like when I finally figured out what it was, and I was like, This is who I was all along. And I was like trying to fit into all these different things. So yeah, that is like my story of like, how I got into editorial weddings.
Sandra Henderson 12:12
As you were figuring these things out which during COVID, I can totally relate. I think that timeframe gave a lot of people a lot of perspective and just wanting to like let go of the things that were not serving them and making them happy anymore. But what were some of the like, more creative changes that you made, you mentioned that that LA style has a lot of like harsh, harsh flash. But what were some of the other things that you did creatively to make yourself your work more of an editorial style.
Alora Rachelle 12:38
So basically, editorial weddings is like, it’s really interesting, because honestly, I think it’s what everybody has always wanted, honestly, it’s like you get the documentary style, you get the moments, you also get to feel like a celebrity, you get really good lighting really high end look. And it looks like it could belong in a magazine. Like who doesn’t want a wedding that looks like in a magazine. I mean, I mean, at least for me, that was like, always my dream who wouldn’t want a wedding in vogue, you know. And so the primary focus basically for editorial weddings is like to tell a story. And it’s like an elevated story in the best light possible. So what I had to do and what I was always gearing away from because for some reason, I don’t know why. But when the natural light photographer movement was around, like we never used Flash, I don’t know, I don’t know, if you like remember, but it was like just bump your ISO or, you know, bring a light reflector, or, you know, make sure that you position your clients by Windows only. And I used to think, like, what can I do? What would I do when the sun went down? You know? And so like, yeah, we would bounce flash, but it would be like really just blast. It wasn’t nothing special. And so our clients didn’t really get like super fun. I don’t know, editorial images, I guess. But so I did a deep dive and I really did study lighting I played with lighting, I played with off camera flash on camera flash. I just had fun. I wasn’t making it like super hard. I wasn’t overthinking it. And so I kind of built a formula overall. And I definitely do like the same, probably five to six things every single time now that I come to a wedding, I set up my lights, I play around with them, I position them I make changes, I take something away, add something else. And that was really just the biggest shift. Clients want to know that you know how to shoot, no matter what happens. Like if it rains, and all of a sudden it’s a tornado weather storm. They want to know that you’re going to be able to still take good photos and like, oh, the light is gone. And my bounce lashes not that strong. So I guess you know, like, and then they get their photos and they’re not gonna rave about them. You know what I mean? And honestly, like my reception photos are my favorite photos of the whole day. Because they’re so fun. And it’s just I don’t know, it’s it’s my own formula. It’s something that I came up with and it’s something that I feel like it’s just in the moment. It’s not extra. It’s I know, it’s Hollywood. It’s celebrity. It’s studio 54 is It’s all the things so yeah, that’s basically what it was. It’s just teaching myself like in any situation. And I think that it and when you able to do that you can really charge anything that you want. Because your clients will be like, Oh, well, have you done this? Have you done that and be like, Yep, I know how to do this, I know how to do that I have all the equipment, no matter what you know, and they’re just like, okay, this person is a professional, that just a photographer with a certain style, they can, you know, they can handle whatever comes their way.
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Sandra Henderson 15:26
That’s so important. As someone who is a light and airy photographer, I usually say like, like natural, but also comfortable using Flash, I always advocate for, like, it’s still possible to do both. And in certain situations, you can use your flash, to get that light and natural and airy look, I just did branding photos for a client who she has a Massage Studio that’s in her basement with just some small windows. And when she got her photos, she was like, oh my god, it looks like there’s windows everywhere. Because we used a flash to fill it in. It doesn’t look doesn’t have to look harsh, unless you want it to look harsh. And I love how you had described the editorial style as like studio 54 That just painted the clearest picture in my head of exactly like, what editorial style looks like?
Alora Rachelle 16:10
Yes, it’s just like one big party fully lit. And I don’t know, it’s just it’s a vibe. And I just did a wedding last Saturday where they had a horror. And I was able to there was like 250 people there. And I had to stand on like a bunch of rocks to be able to get like the entire scene. But my two OCS are going off. And they were like creating this huge, bright light. And it looked like Studio 54. And I was just like, This is the coolest thing in the world. Like, maybe three years ago, I would have had no idea how to do this, it would have just been like a bunch of photos of people close up, but like not the full picture, you know. So I don’t know, like you can pretty much make artificial light your own. You know what I mean? Like you can use it for light and airy. I’ve seen it done where like you can use it as fill light. You know what I mean? And I think that’s the thing that people, like a lot of people don’t know about artificial light is you can literally use it to expose for the shadows expose for the highlights, like just like you do in camera, you know?
Sandra Henderson 17:05
Yeah, absolutely. And you had talked about how you’re not overthinking things anymore. I think that’s so important. I think a lot of times we get so hung up on the technical side of things that we hold ourselves back from really just fully embracing our creativity and being worried that we’re going to do something wrong, but sometimes doing something wrong. I’m doing air quotes right now for everybody who won’t be able to see us when they listen to this. But like when you’re doing something wrong. So often like that’s when the magic happens. Like we’re seeing this blurry photo trend that’s happening right now that’s super popular. When I was in college studying photography, if I had handed in an assignment that looked like this, it like I would have failed for sure. But now like the things that people are doing, the creativity that they’re using, and incorporating blur into their photos is absolutely beautiful. Mm hmm.
Alora Rachelle 17:53
Yeah, I think it’s to kind of give off like a more of a filmy like, look, we’re kind of going back to the 90s in a way and like a lot of the style and I kind of like John Dolan, like John Dolan is he shot Gwyneth Paltrow his wedding and I was like listening to him explain it, but Gwyneth Paltrow was like, I don’t even want to pose for one single photo on my wedding day. Like that’s what I do for a living. I just want you to capture how it felt, capture everything. And he did it in the most beautiful way blurry photos, sideways photos, photos of people crying, maybe photos of like super dark filmy things with a lot of grain, but it captured a motion. And so like, what people have to realize is, we obsess so much over logistical things. And our clients just want a picture. Like sometimes clients just want the moment, they want the emotion. And however we decide to photograph that is up to us. Like, for some reason, there was a point where we kind of took the creativity out of photography, we took the fun out of photography, and I’ve learned that by like messing around with film, I had a pen tech 645 And two, but I never used it, it was just too heavy. So I became a 35 millimeter girl. I’ve been playing around with my Holga and those pictures are not perfect, but they capture the vibe, they capture the moment they’re so fun. You never know what you’re gonna get, you’re probably gonna get like leaks, but it’s just about the moment. And like my client, you know, when I if I ever give them like film scans and stuff, and I’m like, Mmm, this was a really grainy photo. Can you just like no, they love the imperfection. They appreciate it. They liked that they weren’t getting the same exact image. You know what I mean? In 50 frames. There was variety there. There was fun. There was like texture, I don’t know. So that’s definitely something that I had been leaning into more and what I’ve learned, it’s like as I have raised my price is substantially like my clients don’t even care how I do it as long as it’s captured, as long as it’s done. It’s really just me obsessing over logistics.
Sandra Henderson 19:57
Yeah, that’s so true. And like I I have actually a sticky note on my monitor when I’m editing this as Done is better than perfect because I used to waste so much time getting hung up on like dropping the magenta down by one in Lightroom. And like my husband’s watching me do this. And he’s like I have, there’s no difference from what you just had to now, the average viewer is not going to notice one notch down in your Magento has or you know, a tiny little bit of blur added into the photo, things like that, or a little bit of grain more often than not, they don’t know, they’re looking at the whole photo, they’re seeing the emotion, they’re seeing the people that they love in these photos, and they’re not noticing all those little technical imperfections that we harp over as photographers.
Alora Rachelle 20:43
Mm hmm. Yeah. And so that’s why I think this, this blurry trend is really, I guess trendy, I did a couple of them. And it’s super fun to play with. But what I think the message is that clients don’t necessarily care so much about perfection. And I feel like it’s allowing us as photographers to shoot our own, what I call this, like the money shot, like the shot that we like, that we’re just like playing around with and ends up being like one of their favorites on their profile picture. And it could have been a crop, it could have been a black and white image that was like done in really bad lighting or whatever. But sometimes they they love the creative stuff, too. Don’t like create a portfolio that’s like so stoic and like. So copy and paste, rinse and repeat what you give everyone else like, their story is different, their wedding is different, they are different people. So like, tailor their story and their wedding day to them. And that was something I’ve been doing for years. But I didn’t do it in this way. I just kind of shot the must have shot. And then I had like, very little room for creativity, because I felt like I have to get these must have shots, I had to get this shot less, I have to get this, or I’m not a good photographer, or didn’t capture the full story. And while we still do get those things, I still leave a little room to like, and a lot of flexibility to shoot them differently and not exactly the same every single time. Because then you start operating a machine and the creativity is gone. And there’s just a business. And it’s not it’s not fun anymore, I don’t know. So I’m learning to put the fun back into like my weddings and the way that I shoot and it has been a game changer. I have been very fulfilled in my work. And my clients love the work that I’ve been producing. And I start thinking to myself, like, this is probably why I got into this in the first place. Like I was making art, I turned it into a business, and I kind of was running it as a business. But now I want to bring the art back into the business.
Sandra Henderson 22:30
I love that. So so much. So as you were making the shift in your business, did you do anything to prepare your clients, you had mentioned that you started tailoring your portfolio to appeal to that sort of style of wedding a little bit more? But did you have any sort of interaction with your clients to set their expectations for what their photos would look like in the end?
Alora Rachelle 22:52
No, actually, not. I, um, something that comes naturally to me is like brand strategy and attraction marketing. So like, I use those two things and every facet of my business. So I’m like, Okay, if I want to track this client, what kind of images will let this client know that I’m the professional in this thing. And so I would go through my favorite galleries, tons of galleries, and I would curate the best images and the strongest images that were telling the story for me, but also showcasing a motion, the vibe, the moment, the OCF all the things that they’re probably gonna get anyway, but like an elevated way, so they don’t even have to ask me like, Oh, am I gonna get a photo like this, like, you’ve seen this same photo, duplicate different ways with the same sort of lighting, so you probably know you’re gonna get it, you know. And so I just pretty much do like every year. I do like a soft, rebrand launch. So like every year, you know, I take a look at my work my pricing, and think to myself, do I want to stay here? Do I want to elevate something? Do I want to reach a different market, you know, and so that’s pretty much what we all do, like November, December, January are right to like appeal to like a newer client. And so once I have curated and I talked to my dessert with my designer about what I wanted, and I had all my images curated for the people I wanted to attract, which was myself, ultimately, I kept thinking, I love this image. And I know that if I was a bride since I was a bride that this this image would definitely attract. You know, I’m the kind of person basically that I am. And so like putting yourself in your clients shoes, but your ideal client in a way, which I don’t like saying, but like I guess in terms like an ideal client could be somebody that values the same work that you create, I don’t mean what kind of purse they buy, what kind of colors they wear, what kind of coffee they drink. I mean, what does this person value that you can provide? What service what experience? What I don’t know, everything their portfolio, your whole business Like, and the people are out there. I used to think that like, there’s probably not enough clients that want this style, it seems a little specific in some ways, like its editorial. Like, it’s not really that trendy here in the Midwest, you know what I mean? Like, it’s taking a minute to come over here, even though I was so sure. Like, this is who I am like, what if people don’t want it? You know, and after I launched my new site, I mean, immediately, I was getting inquiries, and I was getting high end inquiries, kind of like, oh, my gosh, I’ve been looking for your work. I can’t believe they have somebody like this in Detroit. And I’m just like, so you know, it was like, you just sometimes got to trust yourself, trust your gut. And I definitely believe in having like, a USP that sets you apart from everybody else. And so that was like, my unique, you know, service my you my unique experience my unique brand proposition. Yeah, editorial wedding.
Sandra Henderson 25:53
Oh, that’s so awesome. It’s always nice when you can kind of start to make those shifts and changes and really see the payoff. I know sometimes, like when it comes to marketing, especially if you’re a photographer who is using social media, as you’re, like, wow, tripping over my words are hard. Yeah, they really are. For photographers who are using social media as their main marketing channel, a lot of times, it feels like you’re doing so much work, and you’re not reaping the benefits from it. So it’s nice when you are able to make those changes on your website and things like that, and really start attracting the kind of clients that bring life back into your business.
Alora Rachelle 26:31
Yeah, and it’s definitely not like a silver bullet. It’s not gonna, like propel you instantly. I’ve been building this brand for a long time. So like, I was already getting, you know, client inquiries constantly and all these other things. But this strategy is what got me future to the Metro times, like this strategy is what got me my first six figure year, like, it’s a little slow. In the beginning, it took me two years to finally take off, I was setting everything up, I was showcasing my best on my portfolio, I was like, using tons of brand messaging, saying the kind of things that I like, loved shooting the things that I loved about this particular couple, the wedding day. And eventually, I mean, now probably wouldn’t take two years for someone to do this. But, um, you can definitely attract the client that is like, I guess your dream client, whatever. And, um, and you’d be so surprised, like, once the slow burn is finally gone, and everything just kind of explodes. It feels like confetti, it feels like the neverending content machine, but it’s not gonna happen overnight. And that’s fine. You know, I mean, you just you got to everybody’s got to put in their hours. I feel. I totally
Sandra Henderson 27:43
Agreed. That’s so true. I love that you brought up brand new messaging, because that’s so important across the board, regardless of if you are going for an editorial style or not. But I think if you’re looking to make a shift, it becomes even more important because you have to change the way that you’re doing things to start attracting a different kind of client.
Alora Rachelle 28:03
Yeah, I feel like what you put out there and the way that you talk about it, and the way that you make that connection with your future client, ideal client or whatever. I just, I don’t know, I definitely have studied, like commercial marketing. I’ve studied everything. I mean, I mostly study like really good brands like Apple and like watching their marketing campaigns, or like when they first launched like air pods when they were like unheard of, which is hard to believe, because I feel like they’re everywhere now. Would have been a third or fourth version. Yeah, but I remember when they first launched them. No, I thought they launched them with noise cancellation. Because I was like, Why do I need noise cancellation? Like I already have air pods. It’s fine. And they would show this commercial this girl you know, and she’s in New York and you everybody knows if you’ve been to New York, it is so freaking loud. You can’t even hear yourself think you’re bumping butts against everybody. Like it’s awful. I don’t know, personally, New York gives me anxiety. I guess I’m a Chicago girl. But then it’s too windy. And then I get Winburn whatever tangent. So anyway, she turned on the noise cancellation. And she’s like, in a different world. Like the colors change. It went from drab to like super cinematic, like all these different hues of colors like purple, blue and green. And she’s dancing everywhere. Go figure. Now she’s a professional dancer. And all you hear is the music in her head. And it’s like, you know, they had a tagline. I forgot it now, because it’s been a while. But it basically the message that they were showing you was that when you have noise cancellation, you transcend into a different location, you know what I mean? And so it’s like, stuff like that, like the brand messaging is like, selling you how you would feel if you had XYZ. So we have to do the same thing with our wedding photography, portfolios, you know, and you can’t just like post something that you don’t like and then wonder why you keep getting clients and weddings like the one you don’t like it’s like you literally what you put out is what you’re gonna get. Okay, people like your portfolio. As the standard like, Okay, what kind of work does this person have? What kind of people does this person work with? You know? And so and usually what’s your Instagram do that with everything, you know, whatever platform that you have, and you’re building a portfolio for. So yeah, brand messaging, attraction, marketing, all that stuff is important.
Sandra Henderson 30:16
Yes, it really, really is. And I love that you said it’s about like, how you want them to feel that is really like, if anybody is taking one specific takeaway from this episode. I hope that that is it. Because applying that kind of perspective to your brand messaging really just makes it so much easier.
Alora Rachelle 30:34
Yeah, you just you have to know like, and so this is like, why I have like, inside my program, we have like this deep dive guide. And it’s like, 10 pages long, like, honestly, kudos to anybody that finishes it. Like maybe they should like play a movie in the background so they can focus. But once you figure out like, all the answers to the questions like why did you do this? Why did you get started? What are you drawn to? Like, what styles you like? What’s your favorite part of the wedding day? Like all of these things, right? And then you read over your answers. And, you know, hopefully you answered them, you know, completely honest. But when you answer these, you’re like, oh, my gosh, this is what I like, this is my favorite part of the wedding day, maybe I should only showcase that, you know what I mean? Of course, they’re gonna get like, the must have images and stuff. But if this is the kind of thing that I want to create, this is the kind of client that I’m wanting to attract whatever it is, then you need to put all of that out there and figure out what makes you different. So that the whole market is saturated. State statement doesn’t apply to you. And it won’t, because there’s nobody else like you, you know?
Sandra Henderson 31:36
Yes. That’s so so true. So we’ve kind of touched on this a little bit with the last couple of answers. But if someone was wanting to make a shift in their work, and in their business to having a more editorial look to their photos, and attracting more of an editorial, or attracting more clients who are drawn to the editorial style, what would you say is the best place to get started?
Alora Rachelle 31:59
Oh, wow, that’s a lot. That’s like a heavy answer. Yeah, so well, one, figure out if, like, you’re doing it, because you love the style, and not because it’s like on the go trending. But also be prepared to level up everything, like, I have been giving a six star if you will client experience for like, so cheap for so long. Because it’s a non negotiable. For me, that’s like my marketing. It’s like client experiences everything. And it’s easiest like word of mouth. So I mean, if you’re willing to level up everything that you do, and level up your work, you know, figure out how to compose a really like eye catching image, learning how to direct your clients, and not just capture them, like documentary is great, but you’re gonna have to learn some more skills. And I have a free class actually, that teaches all these things. Actually, I don’t know why I mentioned that. But I can give you that link. But all these things will set you apart. And then it will really propel you into like the editorial weddings market. Like once you make just a couple of shifts and a little bit of like up levels and yeah, be prepared. I mean, also they pay really well. So it’s not like, haha it’s not too bad!
Sandra Henderson 33:16
That’s always nice. Yeah, of course. And yeah, definitely send me that link and I will be sure to include it in the show notes for everyone. And you mentioned earlier as well that you have a course I know that that’s something that’s open all the time for photographers are correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure that when we last talked you said that it was opening around um, so I would love to hear a little bit more about that.
Check out Alora’s masterclass, The 3 Steps You Need To Book Editorial Weddings – click here!
Alora Rachelle 33:41
Yeah, so I do have an editorial weddings course and it’s pretty much like the three modules of what I basically talked about so the first thing would be like being inspired being inspired by like cinema being inspired by light being inspired by it’s not like your average shoot better wedding photography course it’s kind of like bringing back the creativity into things looking for inspiration elsewhere looking I believe in like creating cinematic wedding photography so I actually probably didn’t mention that so much but I have been inspired by movies, cinema directors, Wes Anderson for like years and I never knew why. And but I did bring that into like my work I love like shooting you know, symmetrical and all these other things. But that was like that’s basically module one right composition, inspiration, all that other stuff. And then learning how to direct your clients universally with ease and not just giving them like three prompts like jump on this person’s back or do this and that like it’s a lot more of things that work for everyone. I remember one time like I had a higher end client and I was like oh my gosh, jump on. Go ahead and like jump on his bag and she was wearing like this like silk Luxe gown and she was like no I was like, that’s fair. That’s fair. You can’t really do that. Yeah, I know what I was thinking, I apologize. But being able to use, like the universal prompts that I use for every single wedding for every single engaged session, they work for everything all the time, anytime. And then the last thing is documenting. And yes, like documenting is like, you know, shooting the moment, but I think the difference between like documenting, and adding that editorial touch is telling a story, like don’t just shoot a photo, and make it blurry and be like, Yep, that was the vibe that was a moment, like being very intentional. And just like telling the story in a way that no one else could, you know, unique to you, of course, but also maybe in a cinematic way, as well. So those are kind of like the three modules. It’s a really easy binge, and it’ll teach you everything you need to know about cinematic editorial weddings.
Sandra Henderson 35:49
Oh, my gosh, that course sounds absolutely amazing. You may be seeing some registrations for me coming your way. Because that’s definitely something that I’ve been playing around with a lot more this year and wanting to incorporate more into my style. So that’s another reason why I was super excited to chat with you today. So anyone else who can relate if you’re listening, definitely make sure you go and check out Laura’s course. And where can everybody find you on social media?
Alora Rachelle 36:13
Yeah, so I am @alora.rachelle on Instagram. And my website for now is alorarachelle.com. I’m actually going to be moving over like my wedding stuff onto like Alora Rachelle Weddings because I am splitting businesses, and I’m going to be a full time educator and I cannot wait.
Sandra Henderson 36:32
Oh, that’s so exciting. Congrats.
Alora Rachelle 36:34
Oh my gosh, thank you! Yeah, I’m really excited. It’s been it’s such a long time. Like in the works. I feel like I’ve been planning as since August. I mean, I know it’s only November. But still it feels like a long Yeah. Oh, for sure. And they also have a podcast called The Hello CEO podcast, you can binge it every single Monday, I’ll be giving out tips on brand strategy, marketing, and of course sales. So yeah, check me out.
Sandra Henderson 36:58
I absolutely love your podcast. So I will second that. Definitely go and check it out.
Alora Rachelle 37:02
Thank you so much. Yeah, it was such an honor to be here.
Sandra Henderson 37:05
Oh, well, thank you so much for joining me. Do you have any final thoughts before we wrap up our chat?
Alora Rachelle 37:10
Um, honestly, I feel like if you are really intimidated by getting into like this, I don’t want to say is it a niche, I don’t know, like this, I guess this niche of photography, it’s not overwhelming, it’s just a little more intentional. So just think about being more intentional, a little less sloppy, also being able to handle any light situation that comes your way it’s and also don’t forget to like have fun. Like, at the end of the day, you know, the wedding day is so special. And it’s honestly an honor every single time when a client books me to capture their story, the vows that I listened to, and I get to know so much about them. It’s such an intimate part of the day, whether it’s eight hours or 12 hours. So it’s always an honor and a privilege. Don’t take it for granted. Don’t abuse your clients and treat them just like a paycheck. It’s a wedding day. So yeah, that was amazing.
Sandra Henderson 38:03
Thank you so much again for being here. I absolutely love this conversation. And I’m so glad that you were able to join me.
Alora Rachelle 38:09
Yes, thank you so much for having me.
Sandra Henderson 38:11
Thank you so much for listening. You can find full show notes from today’s episode at simplysandrayvonne.ca/keepingitcandid in the meantime, let’s connect. You can find me on Instagram and Tiktok just search @simplysandrayvonne. And if you’re loving this podcast, I’d be so honored if you’d go ahead and hit that subscribe button and leave a review. Until next time!
About Alora
Alora Rachelle is a wedding photographer turned marketing coach who believes that mindset, marketing, and sales are the key foundations to to growing a profitable business. She is passionate about helping others scale a profitable business that also keeps you the CEO your business (without the hustle & the burnout).
When she started she took her business from $10,000 to $100,000 in two years. Alora’s work has been published in over 20 publications such as ELLE, The Knot, Channel 7 ABC News, Popsugar, etc. Alora is the creator of The Wedding CEO, a group coaching program that will take your business from $10k to six figures teaching the same methods that propelled her business forward.
0:00
Oh wedding show season. I have such a love-hate for wedding shows. hundreds if not 1000s of engaged couples and their friends and family all walking through a convention center getting overwhelmed by all the options available to them at every single turn. They are an extrovert’s dream and an introvert’s worst nightmare. Let’s be real. There are a great option for getting your name out in front of as many people as possible in a short amount of time. But are they really worth it?
0:29
The vendors in my area are in the midst of wedding show season right now and applications for the next round of shows in the fall are already starting to circulate. So, I thought it would be the perfect time to talk about why I decided to stop doing wedding shows! This is episode 27 of Keeping It Candid!
0:46
(Intro music) Welcome to Keeping It Candid. I’m your host, Sandra Henderson, an international wedding and family photographer and business coach. I help wedding photographers use systems to build out the back end of their businesses to gain control and continue to thrive no matter what life throws their way. And on a more personal note, I’m a strong Enneagram 3w2 (three-wing-two) who is obsessed with tacos, and my love for traveling combined with navigating chronic illness life are just two of the many things that drive my passion for all things systems, workflows, and beating burnout as a business owner. Join me every week for a candid behind the scenes look at what it’s really like working as a wedding photographer, where I’ll give you actionable steps to take your business to the next level. Absolutely no fluff here, friends. So go grab your favorite notebook and pen and let’s dive into this week’s episode. (Intro music fades out)
1:34
I started renting booths at wedding shows in 2014. And for the next six years, it was a major part of my marketing strategy. I did two to three shows a year and it was a key factor in growing my business from 2 to 12 to 27 wedding bookings within three years,
1:51
I laugh at myself every single time I think back to my very first booth. I was so nervous. I wanted everything to be perfect. So being the type-A person that I am, I use tape to measure out the exact dimensions of my booth in my backyard. I bought all of my furniture and decor outside and I set it all up exactly how I wanted it to look. And I’m pretty sure that I did this multiple times over. I’m a recovering perfectionist, what can I say? I had my pricing cards, business cards, sample albums, I was so sure that I was ready.
2:26
And it wasn’t until partway through the first day of the show that I realized that people kept asking me what it was that I did. And that’s when it hit me. I forgot to make any sort of sign to display my business name. Unless someone stopped to talk to me, they actually had no idea what kind of service I was offering. It was such a major learning experience. But truly, I loved every second of it, and I couldn’t wait to do it again.
2:52
Over time, the shows eventually really became more about hanging out with my vendor friends, and it was about connecting with potential customers though, if I’m being totally honest, I noticed that as my prices went up the people that I talked to seem less and less interested in what I was offering. But the thing is, I wasn’t too extensive. I was just using a method in marketing that was putting me in front of the wrong type of client. I was still fully booking out my calendar every year, but my clients were coming from other avenues like Google and through referrals.
3:22
One day, I decided to finally sit down and take a look at my numbers. I keep track of all of the inquiries that I get throughout the year in a Google spreadsheet, noting things like when the couple first reached out and how they heard about me. And it didn’t take long for me to see that the last three wedding shows I had rented a booth that over the last year and a half, I had booked exactly one wedding. That means I was about $6,000 out of pocket for these shows. I was so far from getting any sort of return on my investment.
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3:54
Now, when I first started doing these shows the expense more than paid for itself. But now instead of spending money on the show to book weddings, I was actually booking weddings to spend money on the show. And that really defeated the entire purpose. I couldn’t justify the expense anymore. So in the fall of 2019, I did my very last show. And in hindsight, I made the decision at the perfect time because it was right before my diagnosis with endometriosis. And the fast onset of my daily symptoms that I have now would have forced me to stop doing the shows anyway. Now I don’t know about you, but I feel so much better about coming to a decision on my own than having one forced on me. So I think that everything played out exactly as it should have to make sure that I committed to it. I actually sold some of the decor from my booth to other vendors and I threw my backdrops in a dumpster at the end of the weekend and damn did it feel so good. Since then, I haven’t regretted not doing wedding shows for a second. Well, okay, I mean, they haven’t been running for the last couple of years anyway, thanks to the pandemic but I’m also I’m thankful that I had already started reframing my marketing strategies before I would have been forced to do it in the spring of 2020.
5:07
I started focusing my efforts on blogging and SEO instead, and I’ll be doing a whole episode on that topic later this season. As you start getting all of your records and finances in order for tax season this year, I want to encourage you to take an honest look at your numbers and see if your marketing methods are still giving you the same return on investment that they used to. If they are perfect, keep going. But if not, here’s your permission to shake things up a bit for 2023 and start spending your time and money on things that are actually going to help you out in the long run.
5:38
(Outro Music) Thank you so much for listening. You can find full show notes from today’s episode at simplysandrayvonne.ca/keepingitcandid in the meantime, let’s connect. You can find me on Instagram and Tiktok just search @simplysandrayvonne. And if you’re loving this podcast, I’d be so honored if you’d go ahead and hit that subscribe button and leave a review. Until next time! (Music fades out)
About Sandra
Sandra Henderson is a wedding photographer, business coach, and podcast host based in Ontario, Canada. She specializes in helping wedding photographers create strategic systems for their businesses to help them get their time back so they can spend it doing the things they love most. As an entrepreneur who also navigates chronic illness life, Sandra also takes a unique approach to using systems that will help businesses thrive no matter what life throws your way.
On a personal note, she loves tacos, 90’s music, travelling, and spending time at home with her husband, step-son, and two cats!
For tips and updates follow me on Insta @simplysandrayvonne
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